F20c conversions

[A.k.]

Iv decided to pop an s2k engine into my 86 an was just wondering if anyone had any info on this conversion, problems, custom parts and such as I'm struggling to find info on it but know it can be done.

Also does anyone know where would find an f20c in Vic??
Cheers guys .

[70XIN]

The biggest problem will be sourcing an F20C, and moreso getting one for a reasonable price (the better side of 7k).

You have a few *small* dramas. A major one is the mounting (specifically the gearbox) because of its shape. You either have to cut the entire tunnel out, or use the JSP engine mount kit, which some people a very opposed to as it spaces the crossmember a shitload down, which throws the suspension geometry waaaaay out. Although in saying that, it doesn't stop john (JSP owner) form driving the absolute shit out of his F20/F22C AE86.

Another small problem is the headers/extractors, as they are on "the wrong side" on a RHD car, so you'll have to fit them through the steering rack which will be a bit tricky (or expensive, if you have to pay an exhaust shop to make them). You'll also have to find someone capable enough to wire it all up.

With all of that said though, i absolutely love the idea of the conversion, it seems to be an awesome match .. the power an AE86 should've had (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FW4jc96PVXQ)

Just await all the sensible people trying to convince you that doing a BEAMS conversion *rolls eyes* haha.

[johl]

not many done in australia if any, try euro and u/s forums i remember seeing quite a few around. not the easiest conversion to do tho

[A.k.]

Yeah thats one of the big reasons im doing it, it's different. Wow 7k?? That's alot lol I read that its only 20kg heavier then the 4age so I was thinking I'd relocate the battery to the boot to keep the balance.
Where do you rekon would be the best bet to find an f20c and six speed box??
Also will the shifter line up with the interior?

[biggo]

Best place to find one is in an S2000

[ke_70]

lol at the comment on the video!

turbo charge the 4age and get 600hp

ill stick with my beams though much much less money and time.
props for giving it a go though!

i saw an f20 at jdm imports at lonsdale in sa when i picked up my beams. pretty sure it would of sold by now though.

[mikeyee]

write up?

http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=4007

[A.k.]

Yeah iv honestly never seen one for sale but then again iv only been looking a couple of days.

[biggo]

Why not buy an FC and put an FC in your FC? That way you can FC in you're FC!

[timbo]

Why not buy an FC and put an FC in your FC? That way you can FC in you're FC!

haha what are you on biggo?

i would love to see this conversion done, that video was semilobon material.

[70XIN]

Please don't make this a "BEAMS is better" thread guys, keep on the topic :)

But yeah, AEU86 and club4AG forums are both winners, there are a few F20C/F22C hachi's on there. Most are in the US

[A.k.]

Haha I don't want an fc!
Well the project has started as I'm about to get my daily so my trueno can come off the road.
It's already stripped inside, big plans for my baby :)

[Celica RA45]

ak since you are in melbourne,i could have helped if you were doing a 3sge into your hatchi

[A.k.]

How could you have helped ;)

[A.k.]

Oh and here's another question what do the masses think in terms of aspiration, turbo, supercharged, N/A..... Twin charged? Lol

[ke70dave]

well as you can see there are a few cars existing that have had it done. (F20C)

so if you are actually serious about the conversion, first step is to buy an engine/gearbox.

then you just have to make it fit, and forums arent going to help!

tape measure, pencil, steel, angle grinder, engine crane, money, time.

i dare say you are going to have to be very capable if you are going to attempt this conversion at home. and since you will be spending ~5k on the engine/gbox , you want to make sure you will be able to finish it before you go and spend 5k.

what experience do you have with welding and general customisation of drive trains?

can you see yourself welding in a new transmission tunnel?

[A.k.]

Really a whole new tunnel??
I have my step dad who's helping with the whole build and he's a panel beater and spray painter.
I myself don know a whole heap, but I should be able do a decent amount.
Can't I just beat the tunnel till it fits? Lol

[ke_70]

if you keep spacing down that crossmember

[ke70dave]

if your going to spend 5K+ on an engine, i would be doing a perfect conversion. no beating tunnells, no spacing down cross members, no dodgy stuff.

[A.k.]

if your going to spend 5K+ on an engine, i would be doing a perfect conversion. no beating tunnells, no spacing down cross members, no dodgy stuff.

Yeah that makes the most fence to me also but what would be the best way, welding in a new tunnel or bashing it up a bit?

And still wanting to know if the shifter will line up with the interior aswell?

[A.k.]

if you keep spacing down that crossmember

What do you mean?

[pen15]

if you want to know look and ask my friend ben who is almost finished his
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/showthread.php/2077-2amstreettaildancer/page8

just ask Benny he can help you out on all your questions as he is actually doing this conversion

[Delazy]

im sorry, but if ur asking this many questions you really shouldnt be attempting said conversion...

my advice is to go away and search...so much information elsewhere its not funny...on here only one member is really in the postition to offer first hand advice...said conversion in australia doesnt make much sense...

ill start you off...

http://www.hachiroku.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1036

to be honest, i havent looked at the thread...but it seems quite comprehensive...unsure of the quality of information tho...

and another...

http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=19833

[A.k.]

if you want to know look and ask my friend ben who is almost finished his
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/showthread.php/2077-2amstreettaildancer/page8

just ask Benny he can help you out on all your questions as he is actually doing this conversion

Ahh beautiful, I'll see if I can get onto him.
How longs he been building it for?

[Sam-Q]

Yeah thats one of the big reasons im doing it, it's different. Wow 7k?? That's alot lol I read that its only 20kg heavier then the 4age so I was thinking I'd relocate the battery to the boot to keep the balance.
Where do you rekon would be the best bet to find an f20c and six speed box??
Also will the shifter line up with the interior?

nah crap, my friend weighed one and it was 160kg, I cant remember if it had the alternator on it or the exhaust manifold, either way allow +40 to 50kg

[Sam-Q]

Best place to find one is in an S2000

if they wern't a convertible and so damn heavy yes

[ke_70]

im sorry, but if ur asking this many questions you really shouldnt be attempting said conversion...

my advice is to go away and search...so much information elsewhere its not funny...on here only one member is really in the postition to offer first hand advice...said conversion in australia doesnt make much sense...

ill start you off...

http://www.hachiroku.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1036

to be honest, i havent looked at the thread...but it seems quite comprehensive...unsure of the quality of information tho...

and another...

http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=19833

+111111111

there is actually so much info on the f20 into ae86. several threads that spoon feed you the whole convertion!
i think personally spacing down the crossmember is the dumbest thing you can do. the one and only real quality of the ae86 is the handeling and balence. why put a f20 and space down the crossmember 2.5''?
do it properly make a tunnel.or you may aswell put a 600hp motor in a commodore.

[A.k.]

Fuck! You guys are turning me off the f20c, think I'll go sit in the corner and build an sr86 now :(

[fantapants]

meh, if you want it build it.

basic points.

If you want the engine to sit normally, ie in a similar space as the 4age, then yes a new tunnel and most of the firewall will be needed. This is not hard, but takes tiome and patience to get it right.

If you only want a hammering, then the jsp kit will "bolt in" with modifications to crossmember and sump. And hammering to the tunnel. BUT to do this they space the crossmember down 50mm. This has undesirable effects on suspension, but can be dealt with.

The next issue is clearance for exhaust. Either know someone who will build it for you, build it yourself, or pay 2.5k for a custom job at an exhaust place.

Then comp. Most success i have seen is with standard comp, but for that you need the dash setup, so make sure you get a halfcut.

Budget. Take whgat you think it will cost you. triple it. double that. thats how much it will cost you.

This is not a simple conversion, BUT it is awesome and there are literally HEAPS of sites around with guides on how to do this.

Go nuts

[spoon]

you might find with the computer if you speak to ben (wildslider) he might just have a plug and play (into s2000 loom) haltech available now

[mikeyee]

http://www.jspfab.com/store/jsp-products/jsp-ae86-s2000-conversion-mount-set/

jsp fab kit requires no tranny tunnel chopping (except to relocate shifter a few inches)

what chopping is required is some of the cross member and the s2000 oil pan will need to be modified as well

Stock S2000 header fits perfectly, for clutch line; an SR5 (4AC) clutch line could be used.
more info here: http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=4007

[Sam-Q]

mikeyee: please read points above in regard to crossmember spacers and how Mr Johns kits make your geometry worse. You can correct it with 100mm roll center adjusters and some big wheels to allow it have enough room for it. I will not however pretend to know what real world effect this has on a car.

[fantapants]

and seeing as we are dealing with an aussie car... not the fucking exhaust manifold does NOT fit perfectly.

[Rice86]

easy $15, 000 project...upgrade whole rear end Diff + suspension if you already dont have it, regardless, you will most likely wanna replace suspension after the conversion, to much power..then comes the brakes, and brake pads! and after the bigger brakes them old mighty 14' rims wont fit the calipers anymore, then you'll be look at 16x8 or larger rims, then tyre choice, grippy tyres that are 15"+ get expensive

just a question, your not planing on making this road legal right? cause that would just be a silly idea with this much modification to the chassi of the car...

[mikeyee]

damn my bad, forgot the whole rhd thing. i stand corrected.

[Sam-Q]

that's very easy to overlook. So let me guess- the exhaust manifold does not clear the steering column? I have had a look at the factory pipes and they are not overly good anyway

[fantapants]

nah sam it seems, dependant on where you put it at least, the manifold is smack bang in the way of the stearing shaft.

thinking back, if you do remake the tunnel nice and high to allow the engine to sit on a standard height manifold, the bonnet woul need serious bulgin bits. Paz had the spaced crossmember in his, and still had a buttload of trouble fitting the engine under his bonnett. ended up having to cut a lot of the drop vent out, and the front of the head nearly poked through. Add another 50mm to that and im guessing it would be high high.

All thanks to that shallow valve angle you love soo much :P

If you were doing the tunnell anyway, i guess it wouldnt be too hard to move the engine back, recess the firewall 50 to 100 mm to get better clearance, but you would HAVE to do a tubular crossmember as you would run out of cutting room on the standard fella.

[Sam-Q]

actually I thought it was the elaborate valve train that caused all the height issues. So any ides on how low one of the engines would have to be dropped to clear the bonnet bracing?

With the crossmember I have seen some silly things and not one conversion I have liked yet. There is always the option of a loop across the front of the sump?

[fantapants]

well paz has the 50mm spacer in his, and still had to remove almost all his drop vent from memory.

i think with the jsp kit, the engine clears the bonnett, but if it was at normal non dropped crossmember height, you would need heaps of room.

[Sam-Q]

wow that bad, 3S Beams sounds better by the minute

[fantapants]

beams is much shorter, but still a tall engine.

i think the f20 is a better engine, but then i havnt got to drive mine, let alont an f20 one :)

i think more success might come from people adapting k series engines .... i think they have more of a lean, and you could custom make the bell housing to have a much steaper taper down to the chosen box.

[ke_70]

i think its the sump that causes alot of to height issues.

i wonder how much height you could drop with a dry sump?

[biggo]

yair for the price you could go a brand bloody new beams but this and fc thread.

do it proper and rev the shit out of it like my hero hugo mclean

[fantapants]

just looking at pics here....

http://www.speedracersportscars.com.au/PRBS2K.htm

and here

http://www.spoon.jp/eng/10000-XXX-901.html

id say an easy 50mm, maybe 65mm.......could mean the difference between no crossmember spacing and crossmember spacing?

[ke70dave]

i wonder how much height you could drop with a dry sump?

a dry sump adds weight, alot of weight.

[ke_70]

a dry sump adds weight, alot of weight.

would be better than spacing down the crossmember. + you get quite alot lower centre of gravity

[fantapants]

a dry sump adds weight, alot of weight.

and u also get to choose where that weight can go, to a point.

[Gunner]

The only way I can see this conversion working properly (no cross member spacers) would be to fabricate a new crossmember, it is the only way to keep geometry right, and to have the engine sit low enough to clear the bonnet, and not add a heap of weight above the COG. But thats just my opinion.

[ke_70]

how low would that sump sit though?

1 hit and that alloy sump would explode.

[Gunner]

It's actually quite simple clay, you have a couple of options if you are worried about that. Learn to drive properly and not hitting anything (I know this hard for you clay, especially since you found out I have been sleeping with your old lady), or build a bash plate.

[pen15]

just looking at pics here....

http://www.speedracersportscars.com.au/PRBS2K.htm

and here

http://www.spoon.jp/eng/10000-XXX-901.html

id say an easy 50mm, maybe 65mm.......could mean the difference between no crossmember spacing and crossmember spacing?

on this site there is a pic of my bosses old engine the dry sumped 7age 20v this speed racer bloke knows hit stuff and i agree dry sump would be the way to go and the weight problem is nothing the dry dump has way to many pros over cons

just my 2c

[Gunner]

do you young fellas understand how much work and money goes into a good dry sump setup?

Dry sump pump, minimum of 3 stage
baffled external sump
CNC/milled sump plate
custom bracket to mount adjuster/idlers and dry sump pump
dash fittings
braided lines

and thats basic, just in lines and fittings will be close to $800-1000

It is not the answer for this conversion. Not when it will add at a minimum about $3000

[Gunner]

oh and then there is the drive gear of the front of the crank too

[ke_70]

more than that gunner.

i priced up a dry sump kit for my beams. which included an off the shelf pan and that was close $5000 all up

[Gunner]

I did say at a minimum clayos.

[fantapants]

im just glad i got called young :)

[pen15]

ill tell all how much my dry sump ends up costing me im looking at about 2000 max considering that's what my boss setup his for but then again making alot of it yourself helps out a bit to but i guess if you can afford an f20 then money isn't much of a concern and if it is dont do this conversion simple as that

[Gunner]

wasn't aimed at you fantapants haha :P

[fantapants]

wasn't aimed at you fantapants haha :P

balls :(

[Gunner]

It's ok we have grey hairs, we're wiser.

[fantapants]

id be happy for grey ones..... ive got more hair on my nuts than my head......

[Gunner]

hahahaha funny shit

[Sam-Q]

F20c engines need massive oil pumps. I can't remember where I read it but one guy who had one in his racecar had his 30psi alarm go off. He found that when VTEC comes on it's like a huge oil leak and he ended up installing the oil pump intended for a 5.7L engine.

Now regarding the crossmember thing. Yes a custom crossmember is ideal and it's what I have in mind however if I remember correctly these have clearence issues over the steering rack. So you can't mod the middle of the crossmember to lower the engine much more. If the sump hangs lower than the original crossmember it doesn't have to be a hazard, I suggest the simple idea of a bash gaurd- like some rhs welded to the bottom of the crossmember to lower the effective height. Perhaps the same would also be needed for the front and sides I don't know as I have not looked properly.

[fantapants]

sam, i think it was the speedracer guy who put one in his clubman.

his ddrysump setup whenever vtec kicked in yo was well under flow. apparently the f20c oil pump can give 100l per hour.... and when he bumped the pressure up on the drysump pump to compensate he couldnt bypas enough oil to keep pre4ssures down at idle.

then he switched to a seperate oilbypass external oil pressure regulator and all was sweet :)

[Sam-Q]

yep that's the one:

http://www.speedracersportscars.com.au/PRBS2K.htm

[MAGIC MAN]

ok guys i have done my fair share of honda how to's, and what not's. i am by know means an expert but i have pulled them apart and put some back together. Vtec is an oil pressure killer and you need a serious pump for them. The dry sump pump i'm using on mine cost me a little over 1200 new, and thats trade price. Plus you still need to buy or make a tank, pan, crank pulleys etc.. now i can make just about anything and i have spent over 2500 on my system, i'm not saying it can't be done for 2000, but you might be using 2nd hand parts so thats where the saving is.

you can modify the original sump and oil pickup to be not as deep, and make the sump wider i have done this in the past.

But avoid spacing the cross member at all costs, it is fucken wrong that this is done, all front end geometry gets fucked up.

[fantapants]

stop wasting our time mm :P ..... actually please start with more pics of your build!! im SURE you have made more prgresss since last time? :)

[MAGIC MAN]

was that directed at me?

[Gunner]

I believe it was dude.

[fantapants]

was that directed at me?

lol.... it sounded funnier when i wrote it drinking the last of my christmas beverages.

was meant FIRMLY with tonque in cheek.

also just out of desperate curiosity for your current build.

ill go back into my box now... as you were gentlemen :)

[ke_70]

im starting to bite my nails also... i need my fix!

[johl]

place in ireland does these
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/7/3/60411.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/7/3/60412.jpg

[Gunner]

stop posting links from there dude, its pointless, you have to be a member to view anything from there, and thats alot of effort to see a pic.

[johl]

my bad i didnt know you had to sign up. will edit and upload a pic

[ke_70]

would anyone else brace that alittle more? more specificaly the lca mount?

[wideslider]

I have an f20c in my car, Its been a massive conversion and very expensive.

I wouldn't think about starting it unless you could do 90% of the work yourself.

PM me with questions, I started blind and wish I had seem a RHD one to work from

[MAGIC MAN]

oh my fucking god, what was that hidious tube thing that was posted. If anyone buys that i will personally organise a public stoning.

[MAGIC MAN]

lol.... it sounded funnier when i wrote it drinking the last of my christmas beverages.

was meant FIRMLY with tonque in cheek.

also just out of desperate curiosity for your current build.

ill go back into my box now... as you were gentlemen :)

i knew how you meant it all good. Current build going well i've done a few nights this week. looking to make front lighter, hmm how far do i go?????????????

Ask gunner how it looks, he came a saw it the other day

[Gunner]

Haha, it's a heap of shit. Doesn't even have a rear end.

Nah, it's awesome, not too much to see yet apart from the cage, but what a cage. Would have to be the most extensive 86 build in the cuntry. But not much has changed from what it looks like in the HR build thread.

I'm jealous, I want my car to be like it.

[ke_70]

hmm how far do i go?????????????


knowing you to far :DD

[haveaparty]

I'm doing this build soon. Watch for a build thread

[Nomuken]

To all your bump steer concerns. These things and some good RCA should be able to cure.
http://madautomotive.webs.com/tierodends.jpg