Using a nissan GTIR intake on a 20V

[Sam-Q]

It seems that adapting these to suit a 20v makes for a relatively easy conversion for RWD in an ae86. Here are some pictures from m0nk on rollaclub with an engine package that he has for sale (http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/49845-rebuilt-20-valve-with-rwd-manifolds-mounts-water-pipes/page__gopid__511352#entry511352)


http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy144/heebily_jeebily/20v.jpg

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy144/heebily_jeebily/20v3.jpg

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy144/heebily_jeebily/20v4.jpg


Anyone on here tried this?

I know of someone who is looking to get a batch of adater plates made up out of aluminium plate. If it works out I might be able to negotiate to resell them if it's worth it.

[70XIN]

I've seen a few of them (should be able to dig up some pics). Looks like a fairly decent setup.

[Dori_Dori]

If it's Fitted in ae86 will it make enough clearance towards the clutch and
Brake master cyclinder.
Does anyone know

[blake.]

It look like it would. I'm interested to see how much it would cost.

[haveaparty]

Yeah the back of them seem fairly narrow so I recon it would fit. Wonder who thought of this first. Looks dope, youse could be onto something here.

[FOURAG]

Is there enough room to run trumpets inside? Wonder if it would fit on a 20v in a ke30?

[ThatsHowWeRoll]

That is pretty swell idea..would be a great option if it is affordable enough.

[Frak]

lol!!!I did this about 7 years ago. my adaptor plate onto the quads is quite a bit thicker than the one in the pics, I milled it out to give more plenum volume and then radiused the entry into each quad using a radius cutter.

[fantapants]

i came in here to say kk did this 7 years ago.... clearly i got all kinds of turned around frak :)

isnt the plenum volume too small for a na motor? i always thought it would work great for fi, but short runners and small volume isnt soo great on na? or am i wandering up the wrong garden path

[Vance]

ah Frak, he knows everything. by sounds of it his adaptor plate would not have needed trumpets inside? tell us more about its performance Señor Frak

[DR86FT]

will this fit on a 16v with the adapter plate?

[Vance]

it would fit as in the bolts would line up. fit in the engine bay is a different story

[DR86FT]

it would fit as in the bolts would line up. fit in the engine bay is a different story

I think the quads r upside down with the adapter plate. So I don't think it will work. Maybe if the mounts are turned upside down on the gtir manifold

[xero]

one of the current jap AE86 drifters uses one for his turbo 20v... i saw it recently in my travels, but is by no means a new idea.

[LittleRedSpirit]

OK we've established that all of you guys have seen/heard/used this before, but does anyone actually have anything to report as far as potential for performance, power characteristics, limiting factors or even a direct comparison to trumpets for example. I'd have thought just looking at it that it would be a bit too small, but might be an ok solution if you do something like what Frak described and increase the volume somehow, or you can use a big piece of pipe on the big inlet tube to increase volume of the system a bit.

So any cold hard facts? Dyno sheets, or anecdotal evidence of any sort?

[Sam-Q]

So any cold hard facts? Dyno sheets, or anecdotal evidence of any sort?

wtf, this is ae86dc we are on here!

jokes aside I am interested also but who would really test one airbox and then this one after a retune? Even if there are some limits due to volume and all perhaps it's not as relevant when it's this or no option at all.

I will bug this guy I know into making something happen about a batch. If it happens I will fit it to my car as a test run and see how it compares, I better keep my eyes peeled on a the a/r ratio whilst doing so though.

FraK: the way you did it sounds seriously awesome, must of taken a while yes?

[Vance]

no cold hard facts from me, but making an adaptor plate as uncle frak described you could make it hold as much volume as your hearts content by extending the side walls of the adaptor plate, aslong as it doesnt hit anything like the brake master.

[Gunner]

How's the availability?

[Frak]

Hi guys, I'll get some pics asap, mine was for FI not NA, I wanted to increase the plenum chamber so I bought a 30mm plate of ally and dumbly decided to mill it out by hand(Sam....took effing ages! especially the inner curves to match the taper of the plenum cover.) I machined down about 24mm to increase the plenum volume. I do not use ram tubes inside of the plenum, I used a cutter in the mill that has a radius on it that was developed from years of development from one of the longest/most wins in IPRA in South Aust. I have been working with these guys for over 20 years, when they have made restrictors I have flowbenched etc to check air flow, they have come up with a radius that works really well so I used this to radius where the backing plate goes onto the quads(if that makes sense)

I also match ported the backing plate to the quads using a mill cutter so it's a perfect match, infact if you run your finger from the backing plate to the quades, you cant feel the step(this is without factory gasket)

The reasons I used the GTiR plenum were these;
asthetically it looks really nice being cast and not just some welded up box
I imagine Nissan put a bit of effort into the design with regards flow distribution considering the GTiR was their homologation rally car(Yeah I know it didn't do to well....hopefully wasn't plenum design problem :p )

I do have this old photo from the original engine mock up just to see how things would fit before I rebuilt the engine etc, in the pic the backing plate is semi finished, it ended up back in the mill to make it a little more asthetically pleasing.
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/1/9/65881.jpg (http://img801.imageshack.us/i/jamie164.jpg/)

[Sam-Q]

looks relly nice Frak, I admire your perfectionism.

So what did you install it in?

I see you welded up the big outlet off the side, any idea what that originally suited?

[DR86FT]

looks relly nice Frak, I admire your perfectionism.

So what did you install it in?

I see you welded up the big outlet off the side, any idea what that originally suited?

Maybe BOV ??

[haveaparty]

yeah that outlet is to do with the turbo stuff on gtir's. pretty sure it plugs into the intake pipe for the filter on the turbo.

[Frak]

looks relly nice Frak, I admire your perfectionism.

So what did you install it in?

I see you welded up the big outlet off the side, any idea what that originally suited?

Thanks

AE86

It was for factory BOV piping, I don't have BOV.

[shelldrake]

Sam,

Pretty sure Dave said it was for a blow off valve. It's Dave you were talking to about making up the plates yeah? For reference he'll prolly have them ready to sell in the next few weeks as a bolt on kit for silvertops. I will show my old vs new dyno results after I get back on the road too.

[Sam-Q]

yep Dave it was, I talked to him about making a batch as I know people need a readily available solution. Photos in your ra28 would still give us guys some idea on how it will go in an ae86 and corollas. Your dyno results will also be between engines though yes?

[jimmy19650]

Im assuming you are talking about putting the aluminium plenum off a GTiR onto the 20v throttle bodies. I have a GTiR and a spare inlet manifold, and I can assure you that finding another inlet manifold complete, or a plenum, is pretty difficult. Your best bet would be in England where the GTiR was called a Sunny. There wasnt many GTiRs built. Between 8000-10000 between 1990 and 1994, depending on who you believe. The ITB manifold was unique to the SR20 in the GTiR, and was the main reason this variant produced so much more power than all the other SR20s. I think the SR20VE or similar had something similar also. As far as the plenum is concerned, I actually took a mold off my spare plenum and made some carbon copies a few years ago. More for looks than anything else. I will see if I can find the mold and some pics. I had one on my car for about a year without any problems running about 18psi before I sold it. This has got me thinking now. I have a spare set of silvertop ITBs that I need to measure up.

[SHEPPO3930]

Yep, it's true. I will be making up a prototype in the next week or so (currently drawing the base plate up in Solidworks to be cut on the CNC).

If successfull (will be tested on SamQ's AE86 and Sheldrake's TA22) I'll be making a batch of 5 kits to start with. Everything will be included (plenum, base plate, nuts & bolts, sealant, etc) and will be a 100% bolt on kit. There will be 2 base plate options, Silver Top or Black Top, as the bolt spacing is different, as too the diameter of the throttle opening. I haven't worked out a price yet, but will have a better idea once i know how long the base plate takes to cut on the CNC (machine time costs money), and the cost of the little bits and pieces that always add up.

Stay tuned for pics in the next few weeks.

[DR86FT]

I guess no one has really made a GTIR adapter to suit 20v itb's on a 16v with the t3 adaptor

[fantapants]

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????

[phil-720]

I guess no one has really made an adapter to suit 20v itb's on a 16v

dude techno toy tuning i think it is on ebay theres a mob who sell some and even tweakit.com.au

[DR86FT]

Sorry lol I just read my post
Fail
I know there's an adapter for the itb's to 16v
But since it is upside down there would be a problem adapting the GTIR intake to the itb's on the 16v

[70XIN]

No, because the ITB flange is symmetrical top to bottom.

The one thing to look out for is brake booster/clutch master cylinder clearance - with most 16V ITB adapters, they mount the ITB's further back compared to a 20V, so you have less room there.

[Sam-Q]

yes that's correct, there is a good chance these can fit the 16v engines

[DR86FT]

yes that's correct, there is a good chance these can fit the 16v engines

Sweeeeeeet will look for one got my itb's today $150

[dtour]

Yep, it's true. I will be making up a prototype in the next week or so (currently drawing the base plate up in Solidworks to be cut on the CNC).

If successfull (will be tested on SamQ's AE86 and Sheldrake's TA22) I'll be making a batch of 5 kits to start with. Everything will be included (plenum, base plate, nuts & bolts, sealant, etc) and will be a 100% bolt on kit. There will be 2 base plate options, Silver Top or Black Top, as the bolt spacing is different, as too the diameter of the throttle opening. I haven't worked out a price yet, but will have a better idea once i know how long the base plate takes to cut on the CNC (machine time costs money), and the cost of the little bits and pieces that always add up.

Stay tuned for pics in the next few weeks.

I would be keen pending price and availability of a gtir manifold

[Sam-Q]

they will come with the manifold and OEM gasket. Looking at one in person it appears to have a lot more internal space than what the photos suggest

[dtour]

sick! i am even more keen.

[dtour]

Yep, it's true. I will be making up a prototype in the next week or so (currently drawing the base plate up in Solidworks to be cut on the CNC).

If successfull (will be tested on SamQ's AE86 and Sheldrake's TA22) I'll be making a batch of 5 kits to start with. Everything will be included (plenum, base plate, nuts & bolts, sealant, etc) and will be a 100% bolt on kit. There will be 2 base plate options, Silver Top or Black Top, as the bolt spacing is different, as too the diameter of the throttle opening. I haven't worked out a price yet, but will have a better idea once i know how long the base plate takes to cut on the CNC (machine time costs money), and the cost of the little bits and pieces that always add up.

Stay tuned for pics in the next few weeks.

Updates?!

[SHEPPO3930]

Nothing has happened over the last couple weeks as work has been too busy for me to do foreigners. Hoping this week I get time.

[ae71]

this looks good for turbo, but there are much better options for N/a IMO.

[dtour]

Yes, it is probably a purely FI setup, that is why I am looking into it :)

[SHEPPO3930]

I'm only doing it for turbo applications (since i'm building a 4age 20v turbo), but there's no reason why it wouldn't work on NA motors. That said, I'm a believer of the biggest volume air box you can fit is best for NA ITB motors. Will be interesting to see a comparo between what SamQ has on his motor now, and with the GTIR intake fitted.

[dtour]

any word on these yet?

[SHEPPO3930]

Final test piece to be cut early next week, then if i'm happy with the final shape, I'll buy some tooling for the CNC to cut the bell-mouths into the TB's, some thick alu' plate, and make the propper ones. ETA 1-2 weeks for the first finished unit.

[DR86FT]

How'd u go with the test??

[4A-G3]

lol i should of done this instead of waisting all that money on a ecu and tuing it.

[SHEPPO3930]

Tooling is getting ordered on Monday, final test piece has been cut and looks good. So maybe next weekend I'll cut the first one from aluminum plate.

[dtour]

Lol do you need another test motor?

[SHEPPO3930]

Hi everyone,

Sorry for the delay, had a lot on and this has been on the back burner for the last couple weeks.

I'm in the final stages of adjusting the profile so it matches the GTIR plenum's outline a bit better. I've picked up the tool that will cut a nice radius into each throttle (kind of like a bellmouth), and the materials will be picked up this week. Hoping to get the first one cut from alu' plate by the week's end, or early next week at the latest.

Thanks to all the people showing interest!

Dave.

[DR86FT]

Hi everyone,

Sorry for the delay, had a lot on and this has been on the back burner for the last couple weeks.

I'm in the final stages of adjusting the profile so it matches the GTIR plenum's outline a bit better. I've picked up the tool that will cut a nice radius into each throttle (kind of like a bellmouth), and the materials will be picked up this week. Hoping to get the first one cut from alu' plate by the week's end, or early next week at the latest.

Thanks to all the people showing interest!

Dave.

Still keen just wondering if there will be enough room on a 16v with itb adapter itbs and gtir plenum with adapter lol

[SHEPPO3930]

Ok, time for an update!Should have pics of the first plate tomorrow night. Just been testing the tool that cuts the radius into the throttle body, and it's looking pretty good... To a point where I'm finally happy to get these started.So fingers crossed, will cut the first plate tomorrow arvo!!Thanks for all the PM's too.

[dtour]

Woooo yeah!
You got a rough price yet?

[DR86FT]

Extremely keen

[SHEPPO3930]

Cut the first plates tonight, and overall I'm happy with how they turned out.Will post pics later tonight when I get on my PC.

[SHEPPO3930]

Pics:

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/7/8/8/4/190786.jpg

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/7/8/8/4/190788.jpg

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/7/8/8/4/190790.jpg

Price will be worked out tomorrow.

[DR86FT]

that is awesome!!!!! ill buy one :D

[lappy]

Great engineering and creativity!

[Sam-Q]

good work Dave, do you have a pic of it on the engine?

[SHEPPO3930]

Yeah I have pics but I'm not near my PC at the moment. Later tonight I'll post up a couple.

[dtour]

where the hell do i get a gti-r plenum?!!!

[SHEPPO3930]

pics of plate fitted to engine

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/7/8/8/4/192126.jpg

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/7/8/8/4/192128.jpg

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/7/8/8/4/192130.jpg


And a pic looking in the inlet of the plenum:

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/7/8/8/4/192132.jpg

[LittleRedSpirit]

Would you mind filling it with water then measuring the volume for me.

[Sam-Q]

I should be able to do that for you Matt if Dave here doesn't have the time

[LittleRedSpirit]

Please do

[SHEPPO3930]

I'm sure SamQ would love to do it for you :cool: (thanks Sam)

EDIT: almost forgot... If you want one of these, please contact SamQ, as he's purchased the last of the first batch.

[johl]

to use this on a 16valve all you would need is the 20valve throttles and the 16-20valve adaptor plate? would you take a guess at saying the plenum would still fit in an ae86 engine bay given the extra width of an adaptor plate?

[Sam-Q]

to use this on a 16valve all you would need is the 20valve throttles and the 16-20valve adaptor plate? would you take a guess at saying the plenum would still fit in an ae86 engine bay given the extra width of an adaptor plate?

what I can do Johl is when I do test fit I can measure from the block to the inside and outside and then you can compare your measurements to know where it's going to end up roughly.

Now it looks like I will find out the volume for anyone.

[johl]

thanks sam that would be great

[SHEPPO3930]

Note, these only suit silver top throttles.

[hachi_dk]

very nice piece of kit.
definately want one.
money waiting!!!!

[SHEPPO3930]

Thanks mate. I'm pretty happy with it. Shoot SamQ a PM to organise buying one.

[DR86FT]

got mine today and my plenum.. still waiting on T3 adapter to 16v

Looks awesome

[08ftwyo]

interested!

[DR86FT]

I filled up the gtir plenum it was roughly 2.3litres

[Sam-Q]

4 plates here and early this week I will do the machining and clean them up to be ready to go:

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/5/2/203260.jpg

blacktop throttles at this stage are a non option because the bolt spacing does not fit inside the air-box but I may have a sneaky way around this

[FoldKing86]

Looks very nice indeed.
Good to see people thinking about 20v filtration/manifolds :thumbup:
Just waiting for dyno figures :thumbup:

Im wondering thou is 2.3ltrs enough.
I would not know just asking.
Maybe a good cold air feed??

[DR86FT]

Good on the gtir sr20 aren't they so it would fine on the 1.6

[FoldKing86]

Turbo manifolds are very very different to what a n/a needs

[takai]

Its a pity that the packaging requirements of the GTIR engine means that it doesnt have the volume that the GTR intake does :(

[hachi_dk]

Hey sam, when can I come by and grab one?

[Sam-Q]

Good on the gtir sr20 aren't they so it would fine on the 1.6

the original GTiR back plates have a bit of a step in there to raise the volume a bit which we don't have. However that said 2.3L is decent.

If the distance from the trumpet/radius to the inside of the box is one diameter or more then that's a good guide, which in this case is 48mm. Also an air box size atleast bigger than engine diaplacement which in this case is 1.5x.

[takai]

2.5" inlet?

From memory the box that i quickly knocked together for my engine:
http://gallery2.plebeians.net/d/31073-1/IMG_1255.jpg
is about 4L, and a 3" inlet.

I reckon there are gains to be had from going larger from what I have now.

[SHEPPO3930]

Shelldrake's 4agze/20v hybrid TA22 made 236rwkw on 19psi with a plenum that had about the same (if not less) volume as the GTIR intake. his plenum didn't have any radius into the throttles either, just a plain hole in a 3mm thick box. He is now going to one of these GTIR set ups to replace the existing one.

The 2.5" inlet is fine, since most people run 2 or 2.5" intercooler piping.

NA plenum volume is a different kettle of fish for sure. Bigger is better I say!

[takai]

Yeah, pressurised plenums are a different kettle of fish to NA plenums.

But i would say that quite a few people would be running the GTIR stuff NA?

[DR86FT]

I guess it all depends on setups like turbo sizes, head work, cams and what u want the motor to do. I'm looking for response and torque so I think this would be fine for me.

[Sam-Q]

I am going to have an update in the next day or two, also we have worked out a way to make this work with a blacktop

[dtour]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/521063.jpg
A pic of it installed on my car. it is a shitty photo but it does the job.

[Sam-Q]

looks great, hows the clearence?

I will have the first 4 plates ready by the end of today. I will go back though my PM list in order to see who asked first for one.

I didn't expect to end up selling these when I started this thread, funny that. I do however want to keep things on topic so anyone has questions about sales send me a PM, for anything technical related or fitment post here.

As for the 2.5" vs 3" inlets, I upsized on my own intake and I did pick up a small power increase, it was very sublte and part of it could of been due to the larger size being better merged into the air box.

[dtour]

It comes pretty close to the clutch master, roughly a centimetre away maybe.
The stock bov location also gets close to the bonnet but most people will be cutting that off and filling it anyway.
I have a feeling that it might fowl when there is load on the motor but I cant test that at the moment cos my shit aint running.

[Sam-Q]

did you have the heater flow control tap in there when you test fitted this one?

[dtour]

Nope no heater atm, :( now I am a little worried about that.

[Sam-Q]

it's ok, I found out how to fit the heater flow control tap in there with minimal hastle

[DR86FT]

Would it be a problem for the 16v?

[Deeken]

Wondering why this thread died? Have you moved this into a sales thread or something?

Pending some dyno comparisons, I would be super keen on one of these, would look super sexy sitting under the bonnet + cold air for munching!

[Sam-Q]

this fits well on a 16V

I stopped posting in this thread because I had no further technical details and I didn't want to turn this into a sales thread.

Also of note is I was having ideas for the throttles that come with these lids being 45mm and all, however they are just crap. They have a harsh internal bend in them right before the butterfly of about 30 degrees with a thick shaft for the butterly. The flow would be terrible.

[Deeken]

Have you had anyone give you feed back on power figures? Is it worth the extra cold air?

[Sam-Q]

no, funny enough no-one ever got back to me on how it went

[Deeken]

Hmm I think that must only mean good :)

Because customers come back straight away when something isnt what they wanted..

How much do these plenums cost to buy? And where would you find them??

[Sam-Q]

that's the killer question, if I had enough demand I would get a batch in from the U.K. Otherwise try the import wreckers. I may have two in in the next few weeks for $250 each. But I am sure you will be able to source them cheaper elsewhere.

[DR86FT]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/showthread.php/16476-DR86FT-My-Sprintang/page2

some bad quality photos off my iphone uploaded to tapatalk

[bazz84]

so did this clear the bmc/boost and clutch master in a 16v?

[DR86FT]

Haven't put anything in yet but here's a pic
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/01/22/4y9azera.jpg

[Sam-Q]

so did this clear the bmc/boost and clutch master in a 16v?

yes it does, however you may need to take one of the two spacers out of the heater flow control tap

[CoR*]

Do you guys think there would be any chance to space the plenum? (Clearance wise) with something like this??

31955

Idea is to clear clutch master with spacer. Then run a smaller brake booster to fit the plenum e.g ke30 exc.

Any previous thoughts on this idea?

Would give the effect of a longer "stack".

[Sam-Q]

would work no problem and I already had a quote for some of those, didn't work out overly cheap but not hard to machine yourself if you have a lathe