TRD t50 gearsets

[z_brutalis]

Hi i was looking at my transmission options and i was wondering if anyone has had any experience with the trd 3 and trd 5 gearsets for the t50

basically my goal is roughly 220hp at the wheels and i have a feeling this will destroy the t50 if i drift or race. so my question is

do the trd gearsets increase the rated hp for these box's and how likely would i be to blow it if i went for more power.

also what options are there that will keep the standard shifter position and for the price is the t50 gearset worth it. i haven't found any testimonials about them or power rating figures yet so i am trying to get an opinion on them from what i have seen the seem like they are a cheaper alternative to the w58 conversion but again im not sure if they will hold up as well.

any info on this would be greatly appreciated as the transmission is my starting point.

[Andy San]

how much do you think they will cost?

a W58 is still cheaper I reckon if you avoid paying a premium for all the bits

[Stain]

I don't see how changing the gears would increase the strength in any way.
and the W5x would by far be the cheaper option.

Btw, why is the transmission your starting point?
The T50 will hold up just fine under all conditions if you are gentle with it...
If/when it does go, wouldn't that be the time to think about upgrading?

[LittleRedSpirit]

To get a stronger box i believe you need to get away from helical gears and go to straight cut teeth.

The gearset alone is 2500 dollars, quaife do it too, so does Albins, I think Hollinger will make gears to suit aswell from what Ive read, but you will pay more through those companies than TRD.

Dont quite understand how it could be seen as a cheaper option as you would be looking at 3 grand parts alone by the time you buy the bearings and seals you need to put the box together again.

[Delazy]

Trd gearsets are nothing more than different ratios...

No stronger at all...

220hp is a sizeable figure if you plan keeping it n/a...quite interested to hear ur plans...

[LittleRedSpirit]

I think Glen, Celica RA45 on here was selling a kitted up W box from Albins? This was a couple of months ago. I think it was $3500, which is pretty cheap considering.

That would be a better option.

[lolwat]

i have been told not to get TRD go with Hollinger apparently far better quality/strength

[slydar]

you wont get a T50 gear set out of holinger, no way. they did a few probably over 10 years ago now... they dont even list it on their site even in the "vintage" section.

as mentioned quaife, though theyre not too practical as you have to send the box back to them for machining..

PAR do as well though a few qld race guys have broken them.

albins do gearsets too but they re use some part.. cant quite remember which. i personally wouldnt want to use 2nd hand parts in a big $ CR gear box.

TRD is really the best option if you want to stick the with T50 but its no stronger.

so.. realistically i view keeping the T50 and changing the ratios really only useful for a club level sprints type car. its too weak for drifting. and its not really good enough to race with. a W box conversion is cheap and compared to any CR gear set. youre better to start there, and then modify that box.

220 hp is a lot though. NA. you will need a proper engine builder to get there.

if youre going turbo you dont need the CR gearset at that power level.

[z_brutalis]

lol i never said i was planing on keeping it na i am building a 20v silvertop twincharged to keep it feeling like a na engine. i know its pointless but i doubt its been done and i dont really have a budget for the car.
basically all im chasing is a stronger gearbox that will keep the standard shifter position. the gearset goes for $1500 and based on what i have seen seemed like it would be cheaper. http://www.rhdjapan.com/trd-close-ratio-transmission-gear-set-b-ae86-53343
from what i can tell this gearset replaces 1st 2nd and 3rd. 4th and 5th stay the same. they also seem to be straight cut gear teeth.

my only concern is that i want to keep the shifter in the same position like i said im open to opinion and based on what you guys have said a w5x box is probably my best option. so my question is what w5x box sits closest to the standard shifter position that will still handle that amount of power. do the cross members have to be modified and what company still makes the bell housing adapter and what is the best one to go for. also the reason i want to start with the transmission is that i want the ability to bolt the engine in and not be losing power to a transmission while tuning. the engine is currently being built. i have a vague idea of what needs to be done to the engine to achieve that power figure but there is a build thread in the owners section listing what the plans were for the engine. most of the parts are recommended to me by my finance's dad who twincharged a twinky years ago. but like i said its mainly proof of concept at this stage im just doing the rest of the car to suit because the 20v performance parts are hard to come by so im starting with what i know i will have to change because a 20v silvertop alone would stress a t50.

[assassin10000]

Get the w-box conversion adapter plate from that guy in tasmania, it'll put the futhest forward w-box shifter right through the stock hole.


I would have bought it, but at the time I couldn't get ahold of the guy and ended up making my own.

Andrew

[Rip it]

PM me if your interested in an adaptor. Personally I would not waste my time with a T50.

[xero]

ugh, TRD gearset are NOT straight cut! they are helical, as you will see in the picture i have of my brand new unfitted set.
also if your going to twincharge you going to get waaaaaaaay more power than 230hp. a decent set up GZE will make near as damn to that with out opening the engine. if your at that stage with your FI engine and you havent smashed your T50 into a million little fiery peices then its only a quick shift away at any time.

get a W-series box, get a E/F/G-series diff or borg warner diff and you wont break shit.


NOT STRAIGHT CUT
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/8/6/68847.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/8/6/68848.jpg

[LittleRedSpirit]

Hollinger make the gears to order, so do Albins. Just because its not listed as in production, doesn't mean they wont make it when a customer arrives with some moolah to spend. You can get them to modify your box as much or as little as you want, or make a whole new box to fit your motor if need be, even full sequential but it would be well over 20 grand most likely. V8 supercar money...

Also, to up the strength you can cryo the parts to make them much much stronger. Id be doing that anyway if I invested thousands in a CR gearset for T50. It seems to be the best way to make a stock box hold modified engine power. I've heard of people cryo treating entire go kart motors, or whole motorcycle gearboxes. One notable one I heard of was the drag motorcylce fitted with a turbo that was 2x normal power output and over double the torque, cryo treatment made the box hold up to the treatment it got and its never broken. Not in 4 years. That was owned by the guy at diff lapping who I had a talk with when I built my diff.

They charge by weight to do it so if you just want a strong box, disassemble the T50, cryo the gears (might cost $100 to do) then rebuild it and thrash that and see if you think it'd be worth doing it with the exxy T50 TRD gears.

In reality youd only need to do 1, 2 and 3 then I doubt even with 220hp you would break 4th or 5th.

[z_brutalis]

thanks for all the support on this as for the hp output i am being under optimistic so i cant be disappointed when i'm not pushing more :)

do they make aftermarket lsd's to suit the E/F/G-series diff's these seem to be abundant but as to what one i should be sourcing exactly i'm still unclear on.

i called a few importers and they said that the w55 is the same box i find this to be skeptical. also using this transmission what do i need to do in terms of my drive shaft? will a custom one have to be made or will i be able to modify the lengths of the standard jdm one?

also rip it PM SENT

[xero]

a altezza LSD will fit in an F-series diff, theres a bit of a process but it works. if you were to fit a borg warner from an R31 you would have 11ty centres and crown wheels to choose from...
E-series are the smallest of the large diffs, and were in early cressida's from memory? im pretty sure they have 25mm axles
F-series was the large sedan diff and was in early coronas (right length to fit AE86 but rare as rocking horse shit), in early supras/taragos/crowns/ but are about 20mm wider each side and are drum only. they had 28mm axles.
G-series is what you will find in most hilux's and are again quite wide and fucking heavy. they have 32mm axles.

you want a W58, it has the best ratios. W-series gearboxs range from W52 all the way up to W59, and bar couple in the middle all seem to have different ratios in the box depending on the number.

[Bozu]

lol i never said i was planing on keeping it na i am building a 20v silvertop twincharged to keep it feeling like a na engine.

A bit offtopic but still wanted you to know;
I assume you did some research on this so I'm not trying to be a smart ass but as far as I know twin turbo's on a 4 cylinder engine is far from ideal, especially with a small capacity engine.
Because of only two cylinders feeding a turbo there isn't really a fast flowing support of exhaust gauses to give any sort of decent response...I think a rule of thumb is a minimum of 3 cylinders because no. of the exhaust strokes.
(I think I have some info on this back at home, so if you are interested I can look it up for you.)
This in combination with the costs of the complete set-up for twin's and the tune to run everything...I think there are cheaper options with beter outcome..But just my 2 cents

[Bozu]

F-series was the large sedan diff and was in early coronas (right length to fit AE86 but rare as rocking horse shit), in early supras/taragos/crowns/ but are about 20mm wider each side and are drum only.

Are your sure they are drum only cause my AE86 has a complete Crown rear-axle and disc brakes?

[z_brutalis]

A bit offtopic but still wanted you to know;
I assume you did some research on this so I'm not trying to be a smart ass but as far as I know twin turbo's on a 4 cylinder engine is far from ideal, especially with a small capacity engine.
Because of only two cylinders feeding a turbo there isn't really a fast flowing support of exhaust gauses to give any sort of decent response...I think a rule of thumb is a minimum of 3 cylinders because no. of the exhaust strokes.
(I think I have some info on this back at home, so if you are interested I can look it up for you.)
This in combination with the costs of the complete set-up for twin's and the tune to run everything...I think there are cheaper options with beter outcome..But just my 2 cents

I have done my research into this and this is why i plan on twincharging. it was a concept that worked on the nissan micra super turbo with a smaller engine. basically we are duplicating the setup used on that car using the sc14 supercharger and undecided on the turbo size as of yet.

i completly agree with you the 4cylinder engine would seriously struggle to churn 2 turbo's even if they were both small. but i considered the super turbo setup just to be different. i am aware that i could potentially get better results running a good turbo setup but the power figure i am chasing is also not overly optimistic and at the end of the day sc + quads + turbo +4age would sound like magic while spooling up. complete wank factor i know but the 20v 4age has an unmatched sound.

i am open to criticism at this point as so far i have only prepped the head to allow for extra air flow so any questions criticism's or complaints at this point are greatly appreciated as it would be helpful to get other peoples opinion's on this build.
just shoot me a pm with any inquiries you have as to how i plan to approach it and any suggestions you may have because again this is unfamiliar territory.

[Dish]

Twin charging is a great idea, if you know how to fabricate alot of your own parts, or spend $20,000 getting someone else to.

I've passengered in a twin charged gze ke70. It was an unbelievable experience, can't compare it to anything else I've ever driven/been in.

I've read into virtually every set-up I could find and by the time you even get it close to working, let alone plumbed up a GZE with an sc14 or a t28bb strapped onto it will give you more than you'll need.
There's a reason why everyone doesn't run this set-up, No d1 drivers use it, no d1sl drivers use it just use that as your base, being different isn't always the best thing on a set=up thats proven over and over.

[cswan]

Hollinger make the gears to order, so do Albins. Just because its not listed as in production, doesn't mean they wont make it when a customer arrives with some moolah to spend. You can get them to modify your box as much or as little as you want, or make a whole new box to fit your motor if need be, even full sequential but it would be well over 20 grand most likely. V8 supercar money...

Also, to up the strength you can cryo the parts to make them much much stronger. Id be doing that anyway if I invested thousands in a CR gearset for T50. It seems to be the best way to make a stock box hold modified engine power. I've heard of people cryo treating entire go kart motors, or whole motorcycle gearboxes. One notable one I heard of was the drag motorcylce fitted with a turbo that was 2x normal power output and over double the torque, cryo treatment made the box hold up to the treatment it got and its never broken. Not in 4 years. That was owned by the guy at diff lapping who I had a talk with when I built my diff.

They charge by weight to do it so if you just want a strong box, disassemble the T50, cryo the gears (might cost $100 to do) then rebuild it and thrash that and see if you think it'd be worth doing it with the exxy T50 TRD gears.

In reality youd only need to do 1, 2 and 3 then I doubt even with 220hp you would break 4th or 5th.

Do you happen to know where you get parts cryo'd (if that is the verb)? Also, would it also be worth doing the final drive parts?

[Celica RA45]

if you are twin charging then most likly w box i have 1 for sale with 4 close ratio gears and its in melb 1st is 2.77 2nd is 1.59 3rd is 1.24 and 5th is 0.890
this box has a 20 % helical with much wider teeth

[LittleRedSpirit]

Do you happen to know where you get parts cryo'd (if that is the verb)? Also, would it also be worth doing the final drive parts?


Youll just have to ask around at motor box or diff building shops in your area. they do it by weight, its not expensive. Yes you can do final drive parts and its highly reccomended for that. It was $105 to have mine done when I built my diff.