JDM News: Toyota/Subaru Compact Sports Car, Code: O86A

[PeakingDuck]

New Link: http://www.7tune.com/086a-to-use-new-legacy-base/

Toyota Subaru Conpact FR Spec

Engine: EJ20 Direct Injection Gasoline 4 Cylinder

Engine Size: 1994cc

Power: 200ps/7200rpm

Torque: 20.0kg/4000rpm

Transmission: 6-Speed

Wheel Base: 2470mm

Total Length: 4200mm

Total Width: 1750mm

Total Height: 1300mm

Wheel Base: 2470mm

Weight: 1200kg


Old Link: http://www.7tune.com/toyotasubaru-compact-sports-car-code-086a/

[shift_rook]

looks pretty good and or under 20k for a new car, not bad at all, no replacement to the original but still, good for todays standards

[driftism]

lol looks like a ford mondeo...

http://z.about.com/d/cars/1/0/q/l/ford_mondeo.jpg

[shift_rook]

holy shit! now you point it out yeah, it does haha

[slydar]

dunno why they think they can get away with putting a boxer in it.. shit donk.

[shift_rook]

cause it lowers roll centre, not horrible engines, bit of side scuffing on the pistons occasionally but still been proved to be able to put out decent power

[driftism]

who cares what engine they put in, everyone will do engine conversions anyway :P

[kaibeecee]

dunno why they think they can get away with putting a boxer in it.. shit donk.

the only decent flat fours are put at the other end of the car by germans, as we all know

[driftke70]

but even then the reason the car is good is completely irrelevant from its engine

toyota has good engines comming out its ass for this fitment, but most of the car is being built by subaru anyhoo, its more of a subaru with a toyota badge and face exchange, than a 50 50 deal.

Just hope subaru doesnt take their ugly stick they have been swinging around violently lately, its all fun and games till someone looses an eye.

[driftism]

quick shop... better anyone?

1777

if this comes out id definatly buy it... id normally never buy a new car but this is perfect. I've been stuck in the 80s for too long, this would be where its at... as long as its light lol.

[Dom86]

Sounds good.
Can anybody think of another FR new car for under $30 grand?

[driftism]

how much are mx5s?

[Vance]

about 50-60k depending on trim+extras

2,000,000 JPY = 32,910 AUD going by todays exchange rates. thats just for the entry level car with no extras or on road costs. turbo+awd versions will cost more.

i would consider buying a new one but id rather pick up one 5 or so years later owned previously by some old lady who only drove it when her old husband didnt drive her around.

[driftism]

yeah but waiting 5 years for a second hand one is exactly why they don;t make cars for our age group, we buy second hand cars!

i think ill have to get a loan and buy it fresh from the show room floor.

[*urban_ninja*]

mondeo x 350z

[kaibeecee]

^ not even close. roof line is about where the similarity begins and ends

still, as long as you can fit a J motor in the bay, who cares what it leaves the factory with

[slydar]

whats the point in buying a new car though, if you dont like the engine. no one on this board can realistically say they are in the position to do that.

and, of course a boxer can make power.. its not that. its just the wrong engine. ugly as sin. hard to work on. needs 4 cams instead of 2, complicating to set cam timing, need twice as complex ecu (as it will be quad variable vvt) just lame.

if toyota are gonna do it, they could at least put their own motor in it. to use a boxer is just half hearted. might as well just buy the subi version.

[todd]

high reving inline four where its at.
but i figure realistically, an engine like a modern beams would be too expensive to produce.

the reason it can be so cheap is because of the coalition between subaru and toyota (read mass production) and therefore the sheer number of engines they produce of the same variety will reduce costs.
and this in turn will benefit the consumer to a point.

but heck.
i hope they listen to the boxer haters.

dont get me wrong, i love box. i just dont like boxers.

[Kid Karola]

Will they make a 4-door version for all the E7 lovers?

[Vance]

i hear theyre making 2,3,4 and 5 door versions. so coupes, hatches, sedans and wagons.

also rwd na, rwd turbo, awd na, awd turbo

[quadeyquade]

I wish I could afford one of these. I would definitely buy one. Then again.. I have 3 years to save.

[WHITCHY]

Sounds good.
Can anybody think of another FR new car for under $30 grand?


If the Genesis comes here it should be under 30k
FR coupe, 3.8L V6, or 2L turbo 4.
http://www.caradvice.com.au/11361/2010-hyundai-genesis-coupe-specs/

[UGANGA]

ilike it
sort of has an aston martin shape crossed with a facelift RX8 lol

[ae86drftr]

THIS is what I have been waiting for!!!!!!!! I am gonna buy one and throw a 4ag on ITBS in it!!!!!!!!!

[todd]

lol i think/hope he was joking.

and seriously how many here would void their new car warranty by doing heavyish mods anyway?

[kaibeecee]

THIS is what I have been waiting for!!!!!!!! I am gonna buy one and throw a 4ag on ITBS in it!!!!!!!!!

lol if you did that you'd be pushing an (already) underpowered turd, up-hill.

the boxer engine isn't the worst idea per se, but compared to most considered modern era toyota motors (2zz especially) they are weaker, perhaps less revvy. well designed, but they weigh alot for what they are.

i think the main gripe with people is that it won't have toyota heart, and will just be another subaru with the front driveshafts removed

[ae8zn6]

mass positive offset =(

oh wells, still, will definitely consider buying one as a daily, we'll see what situation I am in in 3 years hey

[Vance]

nothing wrong with positive offset on new cars. just grab some buddyclub p1's or motegi touges.

the engine will be fine. i like boxer engines. nice flat torque curves, very refined.

[ae71]

im not a fan of boxers..

agreed with the above^^

articles ive read before say that its based on the legacy chassis??

i think that its a poor substitute for a ae86. but id much rather one over a RWD Hyundai.. kinda like the re-relise of the monaro, had nothing special about it like the original ones. just a 2 door commo.

[Vance]

NOT based on the legacy chasis. that was a load of bullcrap that many try-hard automotive websites were spreading.

they came up with it because they got some spy shots of the subaru test track and saw what looked like a rwd car with 2 doors that looked like a legacy. it was actually a new sti tuned legacy with only 2 door flaps in the black tarps. the other 2 doors were hidden under the tarps. was pretty obvious really.

[rthy]

if they get it right the first time then grats to toyota/subaru
if not.... then fanboys all over the interwebs will be spammming till no end...

[slydar]

well. the engine is going to be all new... so it might even be a Revelation.

but i dont care. i dont think boxers are shit engines, i never said that. i just dont want one in my small rwd toyota sports car. dont like the layout in the engine bay, dont think the sound will suit the car.

what engine would they use? well i guess they could just do what they always do. seems to work.

take the current corolla donk, up the compression, tighten up the specs in the bottom end, and put a nicer head on it that yamaha's had a look at.

the car is scheduled for release from like 2 years from now.. so whatever engine theyre using then..

but i guess thats when they make a hot corolla, and, this isnt a hot corolla. its a re badged subi with the front half of the drive train missing. it will be a nice car. but its doesnt really have anything to do with an 86.

[biggo]

so if its got a boxer engine what part are toyota putting in? No doubt it will come with fuji heavy industry plates on it.

As for the engine, boxer's arent the best but theyre far from the worst motors. Well balanced, easy to work on IF you remove EVERYTHING! Kinda stupid tho as it takes a fuckload of room to put on in. Maybe toyota should just shove one of them all alloy heaps that dribble out of there arse every year? Then whack a W series in seeing as they still make them. But toyota are soft....and ghey.....and all they want is the profits these days.

[SEXY 16]

would be great if they bring out a turbo diesel version

[Gunner]

At the end of the day, it will be a well balanced, cheap sports car for the masses. Oh and theres the resemblance to the 86, not a good one but its one.

Boxer motors, and since were talking subi's, are not hard motors to work on, and nor does it take long if you know what process to do things. They are actually quite tuff motors, and will handle the same amount of abuse as a standard sr, if its done right. Then there is also the fact that they are fairly light motors, that sit low in the car.

As for the gearbox issue's, yes they aren't the strongest, but no weaker than an sr box. Just because some cock, behind the wheel doesn't understand how you need to drive the car, its not subi's fault. They can be upgraded for the same price as in nissans.

Hasn't any clicked on to the fact that this will be released, not too long after hyundai's new toy is? The cheap modern sports car era is apon us.

[Axentrik]

needs BEAMS. i'll get one though, boxer or not.

[Gunner]

Beams? Dude the bay would be wide enough for far better things than a beams

[SEXY 16]

subaru boxer engines and gearbox'z are like chocolate
easily broke into bits
"hopes for a 2litre turbo diesel"

[lo_rolla]

I'll be getting one for no other reason but because I can.

I'll have real AE86 (NA, Wide, -offset, etc etc) and a new one, which will drive my 4 beautiful wives I won in a poker match.

[Axentrik]

wide bay... 1UZ then?

[letsgohunting]

*cough*

As a daily boxer driver, I tend to disagree with that kind of crap...

In all honesty, what Toyota motor would they put in it? a 2ZZ-FE ? Give me a fucking break. I'd pick the boxer every day of the week.

Honestly, the boxer is a fantasic donk, and its easy to get big numbers from them, just like SR20DET's....

People have painted the Subaru boxer as bad because of the gearbox problems that have plagued them (modified Subarus) for many years.
I'm going to call the bullshit card sorry mate. I think you'll find a fucking tonne of happy Subaru owners that drive in both n/a and turbo cars every day... In n/a form they are actually quite smooth and quiet... People paint them with the WRX Fanboy image. I'm sure in a couple of years time out at the track when guys start showing up with 3L 6cyl boxer turbos in these some people will start changing their opinions ;)

I would definitely buy one of these cars and get the best of both worlds. Lets just hope that they don't fuck the layout like they did with the 350Z so that these fuckers will get sideways...

A modern Toyota 2zz-fe would be fantastic and I would probably prefer it to a boxer. I have nothing against boxers, in fact I like them - personal experience would show they're fuckin indestructible. I just think a high revving sweet inline 4 would be more suitable. Hopefully toyota puts it's own motor in it.

This car has everything to do with an ae86 in my opinion, just because it's built/developed in joint with subaru doesn't mean squat. It's a lightweight, cheap, RWD, well balanced coupe - pretty much the one line that sums up the ae86 back in it's time.

The other thing is that I do not mind 1 bit the venture with Fuji Heavy Industries - they make great chassis and cars. They're the one jap manufacturer I consider to have higher build quality than toyota. They also make ALL their cars in Japan, so it's pretty likely this ae86 will be japanese made.

When this car comes out, if it's true to that theme of the original ae86 I WILL buy one - brand new. If it only comes out with a boxer motor I will still buy one. There is nothing else on the market besides the new hyundai genesis v6 which will compare in price and simplicity. Yes there's the mx5 but that's a softtop, which I'm personally not into.

I actually can't wait for the day I get to drive on of these new gen ae86s - it's going to be a glorious day.

[letsgohunting]

And what's with the slag on the 350z's layout? It's a front midship rwd coupe.... Not too many people make them for under 100k at the moment. the 370z may be one of the best value "true sportscars" on the planet

[dori_86]

rendering...
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/9803/086ajw09lh0.jpg (http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=086ajw09lh0.jpg)
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/086ajw09lh0.jpg/1/w600.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img134/086ajw09lh0.jpg/1/)

[Vance]

dish on modern cars doesnt look right. appart from that it looks pretty hot

[shift_rook]

it's really good to see the car manufacturing cheap, light sports cars now ey. that hyundai looks pretty good, it's the only hyundai i would drive happily. i never thought i'd see a hyundai drifting, the day is almost apon us haha

[beeoneoneoh]

Fuck I hate how new cars are so big (not neccesarily heavy) but just big ass cars. The gaurds/arches are huuuggee. I want a real 86 reincarnation, not just a FR new car. Wouldn't buy one, will stick to new cars and small/wide wheels.

[marvis]

I think it needs bigger side mirrors.

[todd]

I think it needs bigger side mirrors.

judging by the position of those on the above rendering i think it will be slightly difficult for the driver to use them anyway.remember it is just a 'rendering'.

im excited for the whole deal really.

[yoshimitsu9]

i hear theyre making 2,3,4 and 5 door versions. so coupes, hatches, sedans and wagons.

also rwd na, rwd turbo, awd na, awd turbo

that doesnt sounds too bad at all

i guess the last car that you had that sort of choice in platform was the r34 skyrine

they should just make a revised ae86, theyd sell squillions of them!

[Vance]

they did that for the s30 in the usa. nissan restored a certain number and sold them as new.

sounds good in theory but wouldnt really be practical

[ae71]

sell squillions of them? not sure about that.. by todays standards they even a 4ag'd JDM spec one would be slow. i dont think they would sell.. a few enthusiasts would jump in and buy them but if someone from the general public looked at them, even if they where say 35k, they would turn around and buy a used s15. toyota would get laughed out of the country for remaking a "shit old corolla"...

they would never do it.... or did they make a small run of them? like only a handful a few years ago?? maybe just another rumour.....

[FLT LNR]

I'll be buying one as a daily......when it is ever released.....
however, the thought of driving around a boxer makes me shutter....what the f&%#

you know what they say.....
Driving a WRX is like sleeping with your sister......sure its great and a lot of fun, But its just illegal!!!!!

[all torque]

^^^Gross analogy.

I just hope they can keep the weight down to a reasonable figure. It'd even be good to see a stripper model/track version offered - no sunroof, minimum amount of electric gizmo's etc.

[Vance]

theyll bring out a gtv spec one. theyd have to

[todd]

it'd even be good to see a stripper model


+1 !!!!!!!111211!!!121!!

[all torque]

lol double entendre

[Rice86]

i wanna see an apex Panda version with redline rear lights and a factory standard duck wing and ofcorse the most famous fog lights

[n00bvak]

to all those guys wanting 2zz, they no longer meet EU emissions standards as they are become stricter every day, this is prolly the main reason they are going with the boxer engine as they are already mass produced and are way under the EU emissions regs.

The cost of developing a new performance engine is just too costly in this economic climate.

And cm'on subi engines sound awesome :wub: , heaps of parts, easy bolt-on mods yielding impressive power figures. The only thing wrong with new subi's is the suspension issues in the newer models not being as good as they used to be, lets hope they sort out the ride height and body roll issues before it comes out.

How about we wait for some actual specs to come out before before deciding if the new "86" crap. I think it is a great idea for toyota as long keep what made the 86 successful and improve on it with newer components. Nissan did it with the new GTR, so why cant toyota hey. They are due for a win after the flop with the trd cars :P

[dave2221]

my wet dream involves hot twins
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/220493.jpg

[dave2221]

yes please.

dont really care what motor they stick in it..... as long as it drives the right way it will win.

[n00bvak]

Giddy up nick. Thats exactly what I was thinking. Love b4's for that engine combo.

the EJ255 twin turbo b4 engine is to subi what the 2j is to toyota

[Gunner]

the only thing the twin turbo motors are good for are noise (v8xducati) and cylinder heads. They have a huge flat spot as the turbo's switch, quite frankly they suck, hence why that sti spec liberty gt you posted nick, is single turbo. The twin turbo died with the B4 and it became the single turbo gt, a truly awesome car.

Though the h6 with just a cat back sounds like a gtr, which is just horn. They also make 15okw at all 4 with a factory retune. We actually started building a twin turbo h6 sti liberty today.

[Vance]

ive always wanted a b4. awesome car for a daily. if they TT's arent as good maybe ill just grab a gt.

i love wrx's. only problem i have with them is that they are deceiving. they feel like theyre going slower than they really are. took the 08 model for a test drive through stanwell tops and the dealer chick was crapping herself. i was going over 160km/h in the twisties and it felt like i was going 80km/h.

its the torque that does it. the torque line is so flat after a certain point you dont feel the car really start to move. so refined

[Gunner]

the current models are fuckin good cars. Everyone bags em, but hardly anyone has driven one, the sti's are a whole different story, they are better than anything subaru have ever built, better than a 22b i reckon, yes i have driven a 22b, and yes its just a rexy with a vf22 and a 2.2l

[Vance]

everyone whos drivin a 22b says theyre disapointing. id rather just get a plain version 4 or 5 and drop a 2.5L in if they could easily be road registerable

[Axentrik]

but 22bs look the best.

[Vance]

its not hard to get a massive wing and aftermarket flares

[johl]

i wonder if they'l make an awd version. i'd say so with the subaru influence

[all torque]

I doubt it. Not with the WRX around.

[Vance]

there have been rumours for aslong as the new ae86 that subaru is making a new 2door wrx.

they say theyre making this new rwd car in awd aswell. but all this is just rumour

i was thinking theyre both rumours of the same car but who knows until they start releasing stuff

[Axentrik]

i thought 22B meant 2door? thats why i say they look the best.

[Kid Karola]

22B was 2-door, but a limited production (only 399 units!) wide body version with a 2.2L (The '98 WRC car was based on this model) yes and by far the best thing Subaru has ever made!

[Jonny Rochester]

The other thing is that I do not mind 1 bit the venture with Fuji Heavy Industries - they make great chassis and cars. They're the one jap manufacturer I consider to have higher build quality than toyota. They also make ALL their cars in Japan, so it's pretty likely this ae86 will be japanese made.



Subaru have at least 1 factory in USA. The first thing Toyota did with it, was to start pumping Camrys out of the Subaru factory, as the Kentucky factory was already at full capasity.

[Vance]

no 400 units. one fell off the boat so thats why people say 399.

a version 4 or 5 like i stated is a 2 door sti with a 2L. you can make them look like a 22b by adding widebody flares which are easily available aftermarket and a large wing. if you put a newer 2.5L in and do the suspension itll perform better than a 22b.

probably the best thing subaru has made but you can always hack a version 5 up in your garage to make it better.

[Gunner]

22b's are not worth $100k, they are a wrx, with pumped gaurds wider track, a 2.2l, and a few other goodies.

The only reason why they are said to be the best thing ever, is because fuck all people have driven them, fuck all people own them, and fuck all people have actually ever seen the genuine article in the flesh.

I am confident in saying that you could build a wrx to out perform one in every sence of the word for under 70k including buying the car.

A customer at my work actually own's one, yeah its cool, and everything else, but its an investment and thats it, that all these cars will ever be, they hardly get driven, hardly get driven like they were built for, so in my eyes they aren't worth having for anything more than an investment.

And if you wanna talk about whats the best car subaru has ever built, take a step back to the early 90's and the rs turbo liberty, cause with out that, there would be no wrx, no 22bs, and no sexy gt libertys

[Vance]

do it nick. do it now and post picks. then we'll all be happy

[Gunner]

I'll help ya out nick, theres better options available, let me know when ya wanna go fast lol.

[yoshimitsu9]

sell squillions of them? not sure about that.. by todays standards they even a 4ag'd JDM spec one would be slow. i dont think they would sell.. a few enthusiasts would jump in and buy them but if someone from the general public looked at them, even if they where say 35k, they would turn around and buy a used s15. toyota would get laughed out of the country for remaking a "shit old corolla"...

they would never do it.... or did they make a small run of them? like only a handful a few years ago?? maybe just another rumour.....

none of the original equipment would conform to todays standards.

just dream talk here but if they make a refreshed exterior, 2zzgze(lotus exige S engine), updated suspension (IRS etc), new interior, air con, abs, air bag and ofcourse only in manual.

at a competitive price it'd probably do pretty well in sales. id buy one in a heart beat if they were made somewhat like that

[Revan]

the only decent flat fours are put at the other end of the car by germans, as we all know

are you talking porsche? if so, you mean flat 6...

personally this thread seems pretty vague on evidence... hope it goes ahead and all but yeah.... this'd be the 461st "new 86" thread so far.

negative posts aside, the hyundai offering seems more likely to be on sale before obama's second term. It will sell like the proverbial hotcake if it does land here. Lets face it the koreans are approaching jap quality, and those Tiburons were hot. They just had shit motors and front wheel drive. Point the motor north south, and give that puppy some power.... it'd be cheap too.... god would it sell. mark my words y'all

[Kid Karola]

Unless he means ye olde VW ;) Agree that Porsche has probably spent the longest time and most Deutchmarks/Euros/Dollar$ developing the horizontally opposed engine for performance cars.

[PHA786]

I like the looks of it and i'm very keen to have a close up look but i'm not getting my hopes up that it's going to be a winner until i go for a spin.

My wife is going ape over it. She loves the Subi's and she love the Hachi's so to her she is getting the best of both worlds.

I think i'm going to take a bit of convincing for now.

[PeakingDuck]

Updated!

[PuGZoR]

Clicky (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/03/23/report-toyota-reviving-celica-name-for-joint-subaru-rwd-car/).

Apparently even though the Toyoburu has the 086A designation, a French Toyota head has said it's going to be sharing the Celica name. How odd.

[slydar]

i think ol' frenchy could possible have his wires crossed.

[Gunner]

toyota quality
who could ask for anything more


Nick you need to make that one of your banner thingo's, with an oldschool toyota logo

[skin]

1200kg

i think it can handle a 1.5j :)

[driftke70]

"French addicts yields a total daily heroin consumption in France of 40 kilograms, or 15,000 kilos on an annual basis. The quantity of heroin seized in recent years was 400 to 500 kilos per year (Boekhout van Solinge 1996). That is only 3% of the rough minimum yearly consumption, far below the 10% generally assumed or the 25% claimed by the French police. And, as noted, the total annual consumption may well be much higher, meaning that far less than 3% of the heroin is being intercepted. Another indication that this is indeed the case is that quantities of drugs seized are continually rising, but prices have not increased. If seizures constituted a significant portion of the total, prices would go up in accordance with the law of supply and demand. Even gigantic seizures of cocaine, for example, have no influence on price trends. Much to the contrary, prices in Europe are declining everywhere."

http://www.cedro-uva.org/lib/boekhout.drugs.html

[letsgohunting]

"French addicts yields a total daily heroin consumption in France of 40 kilograms, or 15,000 kilos on an annual basis. The quantity of heroin seized in recent years was 400 to 500 kilos per year (Boekhout van Solinge 1996). That is only 3% of the rough minimum yearly consumption, far below the 10% generally assumed or the 25% claimed by the French police. And, as noted, the total annual consumption may well be much higher, meaning that far less than 3% of the heroin is being intercepted. Another indication that this is indeed the case is that quantities of drugs seized are continually rising, but prices have not increased. If seizures constituted a significant portion of the total, prices would go up in accordance with the law of supply and demand. Even gigantic seizures of cocaine, for example, have no influence on price trends. Much to the contrary, prices in Europe are declining everywhere."

http://www.cedro-uva.org/lib/boekhout.drugs.html

hehe... So cheap you'd be nuts NOT to be a junkie!

[driftke70]

so cheap you can talk jive all day

[driftke70]

racing is relevent to some for their 86 obsession, others like myself dont give a crap, as everything from volvos, to saabs, to mini mokes have been raced at some point in time.

i wouldnt be surprised if it was named the celica, but chances are that if they were going to bring out a new celica, firstly the name wouldnt have to be revised, secondly it wouldnt take this long, thirdly they wouldn't put so much hype into it, and fourthy its existence wouldn't be so wishy washy.

there are no fan-boy web pages for celicas?
you think 7 tune never has anything about celicas?

what do you based your information on, irrational thoughts?

[letsgohunting]

As long as it's still RWD, light and relatively cheap, I'd still buy it wether it be called a celica, or a sprinter, a corolla, a hum-dinger, shitpea, poopmexican rustlehoff or anus hair scrag.

[LittleRedSpirit]

I base my opinion on the fact that celica is a stronger brand with more tenable appeal to the market segment who will be buying something along the lines of the cars being speculated.


Ummmm, Corollas have always out sold Celicas. How is Celica a stronger brand? They race Corollas in WRC, just like they used to with the GT4 Celica. Corollas have had rallying and tarmac heritage, probably since they came out. Same with Celicas. If you like Celicas more, just say it.

I think most people are reading too much into it all. Has anyone contacted Toyota and asked the question?

I should point out, all the internet discussion pages have been emailed to Toyota regarding this new concept car, and forwarded to their marketing department. If you're gonna post here about how shit an idea it is, you may just discourage them from bringing out the only lightweight FR Toyota in 25 years.

Im going to remain positive on this topic, I hope it happens and I hope it happens in 2010.

[driftke70]

It will probably be 1200+ kg and $40k+ (going off the cost of the legacy/liberty range)....
I'd also bet if an S13 for example is 1200kg, something 20 years safer and the same size will probably be in the 1300-1400kg area.

instead of going off the impreza/corolla range?

i wouldnt be suprised if it hit 1300.

[letsgohunting]

Both the ae86 pre productions concept and the lexus LF-A supercar are rumoured to be shown at the tokyo motor show later this year.

[todd]

Smite thy pessimist!!!!!

[Kid Karola]

The current marketing campaign in Europe is:

Today
Tomorrow
Toyota

So globally I think they are looking at different avenues ahead into future growth, despite the current "economic downturn", and as such expanding to new formats makes sense if they are going to capture a market niche* and re-invigorate interest in the brand. Like the old adage goes "you have to spend money to make money" but at this stage talk is cheap.

*FR compact sports COUPE has been overshadowed in recent times by things like SUV's and Hybrids. And with larger format sports cars falling out of favour, it's logical to think smaller. The only current small FR coupe with any cred I can think of the top of my head is the 1-Series BMW, the concept from Toyota for 086A/Celica or whatever you want to call it, will cost less than half as much and be twice as good!

[rthy]

what about MX5's for small FR
S2000? thats if they even still make em

[Vance]

^ theyre both good but both cost a fortune new

[PuGZoR]

*cough* IS250. A touch under $57,000 brand new, with a Lexus badge, in Manual. The platform is there...

[Kid Karola]

The IS250 is much bigger than the old IS200 even - is a midsize luxury sedan that's 3-Series and C-Class territory and IS weighs in at 1550kg plus (1+1/2 hachi's at that).
Besides the fact the MX5 and S2000 (production will cease June 2009) are roadsters which is different category again, they are both dated platforms S2000 now 10 years old and MX5 last revised in 2005, but is the NC as good as the original NA series? debatable.

The new Hyundai Genesis is close... but still no cigar.

[machg]

Someone needs to do a cheap, light, knock-off of a BMW 1 series coupe

[letsgohunting]

Someone needs to do a cheap, light, knock-off of a BMW 1 series coupe

That 1 series coupe is about as close as it gets to driving perfection in a car that's under 100k.

We had one for the longer portion of an hour, and all I can say is that a) BMW makes the best straight 6's in the world, and b) BMW makes some of the most well sorted cars in the world.

[TE27]

yeah my boss has a 1 series for his wife and an SRT 300c for himself and he reckons the 1 series would keep up with his 300c in a straight line and destroy it on a corner.

[machg]

The Chinese are the kings of automotive knock-offs ATM, anyone got any contacts?:hehe:
Such a shame Holden's new small car looks like being another FWD POS, if they had half a brain, they'd shrink the VE platform to the max, and throw in a range of 4 cylinder and small V6 engines. HSV version could be powered by a warmed over SAAB turbo'd V6

[letsgohunting]

yeah my boss has a 1 series for his wife and an SRT 300c for himself and he reckons the 1 series would keep up with his 300c in a straight line and destroy it on a corner.

Don't know if you're talking about the same one that I am, but the one that had was the 135i - 3 liter twin turbo - 320hp. Would easily destroy one of those 300c in a straight line and especially around corners.

[Jonny Rochester]

I am not actually allowed to show this, but here is a quick look at some secret sketches of the new RWD coupe from Toyota Tokyo Design.

2679

[Kid Karola]

Damn Jonny you let the cat out of the bag! :oh:

this gossip has been going on for years, here is a sketch when a Altezza/I200 based coupe that was rumoured to be in the works around 1999-2000

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/1/1/9/10309.jpg

[Jonny Rochester]

http://www.autofans.us/images/Toyota/Toyota%20Subaru%20Coupe%202.jpg

[driftke70]

i have this apple, and my friend has an orange, and we compared them!

[PuGZoR]

Such a shame Holden's new small car looks like being another FWD POS, if they had half a brain, they'd shrink the VE platform to the max, and throw in a range of 4 cylinder and small V6 engines. HSV version could be powered by a warmed over SAAB turbo'd V6

It will definitely be FWD, it's based on another platform GM already use. I was devo'd when I heard that.

[Vance]

GMH is very close to shutting up shop. theyve asked the american government for billions to help them not to.



errrrr i hate that pic jonny. that pic/set of pics have been passed around so much. its a sti tuned legacy. one bullshit wannabe car website posted those 'spyshots' up as the new rwd subaru and then every other bullshit wannabe car website did the same.

heres details for the sti legacy
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=127309







most recent concept car sketches:

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/05/subarufr.500_450-op.jpg

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/toy-frsports-bcrender-01-thumb.jpg

[todd]

top one looks fucking tough.
bottom one looks like a ferarri/TVR/lotus.bit too bubbly for my liking, needs more angles/angryness.
although they are both nice designs for new cars anyway i think

[Jonny Rochester]

My posts have been deleted before in this thread, so you can use that to gauge how serious I am about it.

[Rice86]

GMH is very close to shutting up shop. theyve asked the american government for billions to help them not to.



errrrr i hate that pic jonny. that pic/set of pics have been passed around so much. its a sti tuned legacy. one bullshit wannabe car website posted those 'spyshots' up as the new rwd subaru and then every other bullshit wannabe car website did the same.

heres details for the sti legacy
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=127309







most recent concept car sketches:

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/05/subarufr.500_450-op.jpg

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/toy-frsports-bcrender-01-thumb.jpg

^ that blue one, is that based on the new supra?...only car i can think of that would look like that, now i would so buy this over the new 86 anyday

[yoshimitsu9]

wtf, the new "final design" looks FUCKING terrible, toyobaru musnt have in house good taste police? every other concept looked 11tybillion times better

[Kid Karola]

I think "that blue one" is a reincarnation of the classic 2000GT from the 60's. And if Subaru are working in partnership with Toyota on the chassis and mechanicals, they have seperate design departments so I'd expect the face and ass of each to be somewhat different.

[Frak]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/1/1/9/10309.jpg

Why can't they just fucking do this....what a great looking little car, and witha 3SGE Beams/6 speed/LSD would be great fun.....Toyota fucking do it:shout:

[Frak]

You just can't have subaru styling cars......all they produce is fucking minga's

[Eircamae86]

They should have made a rwd version of the Curren a few years ago using the gt4 shell, would have been an S14 beater, Toyota dont care about the ae86, how many initial D fans are going to run out & buy the new version, in all honesty

[PuGZoR]

Clicky (http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/news-and-reviews/story/tokyo_motor_show_cuts_down/).

News article (Carsguide) about how the Tokyo motorshow has been reduced in length by 4 days this year. Writer goes on to comment how a source from Toyota has apparently said that they will "reveal a car rumoured to have been put on hold; the Toyota-Subaru joint-venture rear-wheel drive sedan that employs an Impreza platform and drivetrain."

[Vance]

http://carsguide.news.com.au/images/uploads/Pivo-2-tokyo--motor-showLR.jpg

awesome

[rthy]

ew nissan
just by looking at it, probly has a 6speed AWD v6 twinturbo running gear

[driftism]

and left hand drive :(

[Vance]

they obviously have the future wrong. ever seen the jetsons? only white people up in that bitchin future

[PuGZoR]

Another 7Tune article (http://www.7tune.com/086a-spotted-testing-two-different-body-styles/).

Apparently Best Car Magazine in JP has seen 2 different body shaped 086A's. Still quoting a whole heap of stuff that's been said before too, eg, Boxer, dimensions, chassis, etc. Apparently price is starting to be an issue, with Toyota (apparently) fearing the end sale amount might be closer to 2.5m Yen.

Still nothing solid, but meh, at least they're quoting it from Best Car and not just "from one of their sources".

[DavisJD]

Not reading 8 pages of shit, but these are what I have found so far.

The 2010 RWD Coupe (we don’t know the name yet) will be powered by 2.0-liter flat four engine that will deliver 175bhp (for the naturally aspired version). Subaru will also unveil a 2.5-liter turbocharged version few months after the standard version.

Spy shots

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_FoXyvaPSnVk/SEfRPaz2bfI/AAAAAAAAto8/Rjv1hYS7f0U/s1600-h/Toyota_Subaru_RWD_2.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_FoXyvaPSnVk/SEfRUKz2bgI/AAAAAAAAtpE/XyNMyDwd_-Y/s200/Toyota_Subaru_RWD_1.JPG

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_FoXyvaPSnVk/SEfRBqz2baI/AAAAAAAAtoU/Dmv8QglZcDw/s1600-h/Toyota_Subaru_RWD_0.JPG

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_FoXyvaPSnVk/SEfRB6z2bcI/AAAAAAAAtok/BLnL0IoygLg/s400/Toyota_Subaru_RWD_3.JPG

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_FoXyvaPSnVk/SEfRB6z2bdI/AAAAAAAAtos/0EqtL5t8goE/s400/Toyota_Subaru_RWD_4.JPG

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_FoXyvaPSnVk/SEfRCKz2beI/AAAAAAAAto0/eIMdEzhl6OQ/s400/Toyota_Subaru_RWD_5.jpg


Subaru version Concept pics

http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/200805/2010-subaru-rwd-coupe_460x0w.jpg

[Kid Karola]

Although quite heavily masked still looks like a Liberty sedan, but guess thats the point. The concept definately shows more promise. Just hope it's RWD rather than AWD.

[xsoarerx]

not sure if its been added but... - http://www.autoblog.com/2009/03/23/report-toyota-reviving-celica-name-for-joint-subaru-rwd-car/3

REPORT: Toyota reviving Celica name for joint Subaru RWD car


The last report about the on again/off again sports car being developed jointly by Toyota and Subaru was that it's on again. Today comes word from L'Automobile in France that not only is the rear-wheel-drive Toyubaru going to happen, but it will arrive bearing the Celica name sometime in 2010. If Wikipedia is to be believed, this would be the eighth generation of the Celica, which traces its roots all the way back to 1970 when it debuted in Japan as an inexpensive rear-wheel-drive sports car. Through the years it switched to front- and all-wheel drive, with the final seventh generation Celica sold from 2000 - 2005 being a strict cart puller. L'Automobile claims that Thierry Dombreval, Toyota's VP of sales and marketing in France, spilled the beans on reviving the Celica name, so we won't consider this news solid until a second source comes forward or Toyota officially confirms it, neither of which is likely to happen. So for now all you Celica fans should just sit tight and light a few candles for your cause.

[Vance]

those spy shots is of a sti legacy as previously stated.

that is the pic of the subaru concept car that i mentioned earlier.

there is also a pic floating around of the toyota concept car aswell but because of so many lamer sites posting incorrect garbage its hard to find when searching google.

[xsoarerx]

hummm... yeah, thres soo much info going around atm... isnt there like 5 thread on here about the same car, i can picture evey other man and his dog's doing the same thing.

but calling it the celica is much more pheasable rather than naming it, levin or sprinter or corolla... celica's have a long and much loved history (dont get me wrong so do rollas) but it might apeal to a wider audience than calling it the sprinter or a new name

[xsoarerx]

really, fail maybe i should of read a few pages back... oh well.

its not like anyone on here will own one with in the first 2 years of it beeing on sale, unless someones really cashed up and is willing to import on and go thru the compliance process...

soooo dont really matter what its called :P its FR + small + toyota = win

[driftke70]

http://image.motortrend.com/f/auto-news/its-official-toyota-subaru-rwd-sports-car-coming-in-2011/9708714+w562+cr1+re0+ar1/toyota-subaru-sports-car.jpg

[todd]

^^thats a better looking concept!

[letsgohunting]

I wish they'd lose those stupid little mini lights at the front for once and for all though...

[todd]

could be deleted with an aftermarket/lower spec front bar thought surely if it was to remotely look anything like that.
most likely that is a higher end spec model with foglights etc etc all options. so yeah

[all torque]

Looks vaguely like a Lexus IS300, but more bloated and ugly.

[driftke70]

True, true.

Anyway end of the day 086A having anything to do with an AE86 is as likely as the 050A Camry being a spiritual successor to a KE55 sedan.

camry was really a corona successor

[driftke70]

i thought that but then you would have written ke50

[driftke70]

http://www.autospies.com/images/users/XeroK00L/MagX-2-3.jpg

[PuGZoR]

Aww, it's so cute, looks like a squished VE Commodore.

[Kid Karola]

Saw this in Toyota on Champs Elysses in Paris last week - a pretty cool little roadster.

The Toyota CS&S meaning Compact Sports and Specialty, debuted at 2003 Frankfurt Auto Show (so not exactly news ;) ) but a mid engine 2+2 sports car with hybrid 4 wheel drive, an electric motor drives the front wheels, while a gas engine and electric motor in combination drive the rear.

[letsgohunting]

Saw this in Toyota on Champs Elysses in Paris last week - a pretty cool little roadster.

The Toyota CS&S meaning Compact Sports and Specialty, debuted at 2003 Frankfurt Auto Show (so not exactly news ;) ) but a mid engine 2+2 sports car with hybrid 4 wheel drive, an electric motor drives the front wheels, while a gas engine and electric motor in combination drive the rear.

cars like that are the exact reason why modern toyotas fail. What a piece.

[DRFT]

I hope they make it FWD, AUTO, running a 4efe equivalent boxer engine.. I also hope it comes standard with neons

[darksnake]

dont know if i like it or not yet

[ae71]

look Toyota im buying a Hyundai

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX-wgjIqyB8

[rthy]

what he said

http://www.hyundai.com.au/HYUNDAI-GENESIS-COUPE-GOES-INTO-PRODUCTION/default.aspx

[Kid Karola]

I could never own a Hyundai strictly on principle.

[all torque]

I wouldn't be ashamed to rock one of the new RWD ones.

[Kid Karola]

If the FT-HS concept from 2006 - touted to be the new Supra is anything to go by...

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2006/12/ext_studio_img_02mod.jpg
Toyota FT-HS Concept (http://www.toyota.com/concept-vehicles/fths.html) Autoblog Gallery (http://www.autoblog.com/photos/toyota-ft-hs-concept/)

Then a slightly shrunk down version, with the similar geometric design influence would take the 086A a step forward rather then back in terms of vision.

[sundee]

see now i like the look of that.. but is it going to perform like a prius?

[focus_7]

Word is Toyota is planning a V8 version.

[Kid Karola]

If that V8 is based on 2 Yamaha-R1 mated at 90 degrees and revs to 15 grand :wub:

[PuGZoR]

Maybe they might go a H1V8. Google it if you're unfamiliar. 2 Hayabusa heads with custom block, flat plane crank, 84mm bore and 63mm stroke, 75º vee angle, dry sump. 400hp @ 9500rpm naturally aspirated, from a 2.8L. That's with the head being completely stock too, with porting and some aftermarket cams they reckon up to 500hp is possible. Small engine too, only 550x550x450mm apparently, giving it a real low centre of gravity.

Pity the makers of it want AU$40k a piece...

[Kid Karola]

Something similar but 2l and Yamaha to keep it in the family ;) could be VVTi and named BEAMS2 (Hey Toyota engineers! are you taking notes?!?)

[Adjacent]

Regardless on what they call it and what they do with it, it couldnt be any worst than the trd aurion? Could it?

[Axentrik]

If that V8 is based on 2 Yamaha-R1 mated at 90 degrees and revs to 15 grand :wub:

then i would whore myself out to 1000 fat chicks at 50 bucks a pop to own one.