4age running poorly

[JDM-086]

ill keep it as short and concise as possible:
-down low the car barely pulls and actually goes worse if u put foot to the floor rather than gradually letting onto the accelerator
-in first and second the car picks up considerably after 4.5gran revs but in 3rd,4th and 5th it struggles a fair bit
-pings slightly wen pushed
-drinking a s*** load of petrol

now this is what ive done to fix the issue but so far hasnt worked:
-changed fuel filter,spark plugs, fixed exhaust leak.
-there was no o2 sensor, hooked another single wire toyota o2 sensor
-checked ignition timing and it was set to 20degrees, wen totally retarding it the lowest we could get it to was advanced 20 degrees, so we pulled the dizzy out and skipped it over 1 tooth and then wen couldnt get it any higher than 5degrees advanced ( im thinking the cam timing could b out).

if any 1 has any ideas as to what the problem is, help would b much appreciated (if any1 also knows of any good mechanics or anything like that, that work on these engines plz let me know)

**ive posted this on a few other forums so i apologize if uve seen this post elsewhere**

[Monster]

Where abouts are you dude?
It sounds like its just engine wear, just remember the 4AGE is a 20-something year old engine.
Arn't the 4AGE's ment to run at 12 BTDC?

[JDM-086]

yeah should @ 10, 12 max

im from melb

[TurboRA28]

Did you put the ECU into diagnostic mode before trying to adjust timing?

[Monster]

wen totally retarding it the lowest we could get it to was advanced 20 degrees[/b]

???

Sounds like the timing belt was put on wrong maybe, check that the crank was set to 0 TDC but also the cams too (Take the filler cap off and check for the notch on the exh cam) if this fails... in melbourne, I really dont know.

[JDM-086]

that we didnt do, we couldnt find the wires that we were supposed to short

[JDM-086]

im gettin my friend whos a mechanic to look @ it 2nite, hes not too familiar with these engines though, but ohwell, well c what happens n will let u no how i go by 2nite. if any1 has any other ideas plz post i really want to get this car running properly.

[mattysshop]

12 deg max.. ha ha ha timing.. 30 deg for me.. i had to advance it a whole tooth, now it's on the retard side..i can go more advanced..but not in summer, or an air box getting some decent cool air.. http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

have a look at your map sensor and TPS.. it's really hard to diagnose a problem like this with out it infront of you having a gander at it..aside from that get the engine on top dead centre when the crank pully is on 0 check your cam timing, there should be 2 pin punches in the cam gears they should line up with the 2 marks on the back metal timing cover..

also a quick and easy way to check your inlet cam timing.. TDC on crank pully, take off your oil cap, shine a torch down, notice how half the hole is covered, running paralell with that half you should see a grove on the inlet cam http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif but take your cam cover of..5 10mm bolts is just as easy..

Matty

[sic86]

Originally posted by Mattysshop@Dec 14 2005, 03:56 PM
12 deg max.. ha ha ha timing.. 30 deg for me.. i had to advance it a whole tooth, now it's on the retard side..i can go more advanced..but not in summer, or an air box getting some decent cool air.. http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

have a look at your map sensor and TPS.. it's really hard to diagnose a problem like this with out it infront of you having a gander at it..aside from that get the engine on top dead centre when the crank pully is on 0 check your cam timing, there should be 2 pin punches in the cam gears they should line up with the 2 marks on the back metal timing cover..

also a quick and easy way to check your inlet cam timing.. TDC on crank pully, take off your oil cap, shine a torch down, notice how half the hole is covered, running paralell with that half you should see a grove on the inlet cam http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif but take your cam cover of..5 10mm bolts is just as easy..

Matty
lol, i take it you have done this a fair bit?
Mine use to have the same problem. The spark plug leads ending up being in the wrong firing order/adjusted the timing and fuel/air flow

Cheers

[JDM-086]

i fixed the timing and no fix http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/sad.gif it doesnt have an air flow meter u think that has sumfin to do with it?

[sic86]

Originally posted by JDM-086@Dec 14 2005, 08:47 PM
i fixed the timing and no fix http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/sad.gif it doesnt have an air flow meter u think that has sumfin to do with it?
I thought all 4AGE 16V have no air flow meter

Cheers

[JDM-086]

not according to the 4age engine manual, but i dont think that will b it coz alot of people have said it doesnt need it. im really stumped as to what the hells rong with this thing, im going to try get sum shots off the engine bay if theres any areas of the engine use want a real good shot of plz tell me.

[sic86]

There's no vacuum leak?

Cheers

[JDM-086]

ill put that on my things to check list, also feel free to add me to msn saves contineous posting here
figc_82@hotmail.com

[mattysshop]

a 4age is either map or afm..not both..JDM 86 ones are all map.. should be against the firewall towards the driver side.. its a little black box that says 'SENSOR VACUME' (sp? i'm hopeless) just replace the 3mm vac hose with a new piece from the manifold.. just to be safe.. http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

[JDM-086]

took a few shots of the bay ill try get em up asap

[Monster]

Have you run a compression test?

[JDM_KING]

pull yor cam pulley cover off and then turn your bottom pulley around to top dead centre( TDC) and see if the two marks on the cam pulleys lighn up with the marks on the head behind them. because if your timing belt is old or worn it might'f skiped a tooth. ;)

[JDM_KING]

there has been e few times in my work shop that ive done work on 4age's and they've been a tooth out have done the same thing what you have explained in tou first post. thats why im sure that,that is the problem. --it gets to about 4500 rpm and will start making power.

[mattysshop]

he has already stated half way down the post that the cam timing is right..

[JDM-086]

yeah cam timings been checked but i might get it checked again, valve timing is checked, hasnt had a compression test but the mech said it wouldnt b that judging on how it runs atm but ill probably get that checked just incase.

im trying to get those pics up asap i need the dam usb cord from digi cam to pc lol stay tuned

[mattysshop]

yeh it really does sound like you have just missed 1 tooth..more likely an exhaust cam.. i have skipped inlet cam teeth.. doesn't really do anything but make the car behave a little different..nothing like what your saying..

[JDM-086]

these r the fotos, i tried to get all angles of the engine, hope it helps.
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/86100.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/86101.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/86102.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/86103.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/86104.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/86105.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/86106.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/86107.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/86108.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/86109.jpg

[riceburner]

ive never seen a map senor like that before, not ona bigport anyways.

I had symptons like this a few yrs ago.

Turned out timing was out because the dizzy was 1 tooth out and i had a vaccum leak on the inlet manifold.

I suggest you spray carby/throttle cleaner around inlet manifold (on top and underneath) revs will alter if there is a leak.

Failing that, turn crank by spanner till inlet cams notch (remove oil cap as suggested before) is inline with the cam cover, remove top pulley cover, all notches should line up perfectly, not one or two mil out, perfectly, buttom pulley should also read 0 deg.

Failing that, without the car infront of me i got no idea sorry.

MSN fkn16v@hotmail.com

Did you know this was here,

http://www.toymods.org.au/Repository/index.php?dir=4age_book

Manual for the 4ag.

Cheers

Steve

[JDM-086]

yeah i got the manual,
thank you for the suggestion ill get onto it asap and let you know how i go

[Monster]

THATS A 20V MAP!!!

[JDM-086]

Originally posted by 20v Monster@Dec 22 2005, 08:38 PM
THATS A 20V MAP!!!
how sure are you? if thats the case ill b right onto hunting one down

[BouNCE-86]

if theres any1 in melbourne area with a spare 4age 16v map sensor up for grabs can you let me know please http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/happy.gif much appreciated

[phrostbyte]

Also it would seem you are using the wrong ignitor module, which would definately explain your problem, as the problem sounds like a timing problem. Get an ignitor module with "45" on one sticker and "Jr" on the other sticker.

Nice 4A-C belt set-up by the way http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif.

Also, Datspares Mazparts Toyoparts in Westall (Fairbank Rd) have lots of Igniter modules and MAP sensors always in stock. I got an igniter module from there a while back for $45 with warranty which ain't too bad.

Kev.

[JDM-086]

wow thanx for that ill b sure to chek it out as im finding difficulty sourcing those parts, i knew about the ignitor but didnt think it would make much difference??

[JDM-086]

ok just bought these 2day, got em off a FWD 4age small port im hoping these r the right parts.... though mines a bigport i hope that wont make a difference http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/sleep.gif

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/92257.jpg

[riceburner]

Originally posted by phrostbyte@Jan 15 2006, 01:08 AM
Nice 4A-C belt set-up by the way http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif.
Dam not even i spotted that one.

Incase you didnt know too the motor is apparently a AW11 bigport, i dont know if that makesa difference.

Well i appears the previous owner has done sum dodgy shit, the other map sensor(the proper 16v one) he brought doesnt work at all, he tells me car doesnt work at all, runs very rough and doesnt hold Idle.

I am personnelly stuffed unless the car is in front of me.

Is anyone able to drop around or if he can get it running again if he could drop it around and give this guy a hand.

I still think its map sensor, tps, timing related.

did anyone take a good look at that tps position, seems to be sitting an awfully turned towards the firewall.

Cheers

Steve

[phrostbyte]

Hey again,
If you need some help JDM-086 I can probably drop around tonight and have a look (depending on where you are in melb). Add me to your msn:
phrostbyte2 (at) hotmail.com
or give me a ring 0401372024.

That new igniter module is the right one by the way, sorry I meant 48 instead of 45 http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/tongue.gif

From the problems you were having, my first thought is definately retarded timing. Mine did this the first time i finished my engine conversion. It will bog down completely in low revs (the more fuel you put in, the more it wants to die), then as soon as you hit 4000-4500 it kicks almost enough torque to throw you back in your seat, because the timing advance at that RPM advances it out enough to fire a bit more normally. I drove the whole way from Eildon to Melbourne like that. Hahaha should have seen the look on peoples faces when I'd hit 4500 and the front of the car would almost lift off the ground http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/biggrin.gif.

Cheers,
Kev.

Edit: Also, about "I didn't think an igniter would make much of a difference". Belieeeeve me it does. I was using a 3SGE ignitor the first time i finished my conversion which really isnt that different other than larger engine capacity, and it wouldn't rev above 2000RPM without backfiring like all hell... I'm surprised it even runs half-normal with that one...

[sic86]

Originally posted by phrostbyte@Jan 15 2006, 12:08 AM
Also it would seem you are using the wrong ignitor module, which would definately explain your problem, as the problem sounds like a timing problem. Get an ignitor module with "45" on one sticker and "Jr" on the other sticker.

Nice 4A-C belt set-up by the way http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif.

Also, Datspares Mazparts Toyoparts in Westall (Fairbank Rd) have lots of Igniter modules and MAP sensors always in stock. I got an igniter module from there a while back for $45 with warranty which ain't too bad.

Kev.
What is the difference?

Cheers

[JDM-086]

thanx for the help so far guys much appreciated. im in Thomastown melbourne area so any1 who thinks they can lend a hand it would help me a gr8 deal, im willing to pay

[riceburner]

Originally posted by JDM-086@Feb 7 2006, 09:39 PM
thanx for the help so far guys much appreciated. im in Thomastown melbourne area so any1 who thinks they can lend a hand it would help me a gr8 deal, im willing to pay
Dam i wish i knew that before i booked a holiday in QLD, i may dislike Melbourne but if i helping someone and getting funds for it i might've done it.

Any progress yet.

Cheers

Steve

[JDM-086]

well the car wasnt starting coz the battery has had it but the car still doesnt hold idle and sounds different now very lumpy if that makes any sense and making shitter power all round....

[sic86]

I just check mine, it is 70 DR What does that mean?

Cheers

[riceburner]

Originally posted by SIC86@Feb 8 2006, 10:10 PM
I just check mine, it is 70 DR What does that mean?

Cheers
Mine says 85 DR, and it came still attached to the loom. Didnt look like it had been moved either. But then again it was very clean and tidy for a JDM RWD, anything is possible.

what these numbers and letter stand for anyways.

Cheers

Steve

[JDM-086]

i saw mine taken str8 off the 4age so im pretty certain its right

[JDM-086]

ok the new map is in and the car holds idle dont know if its fixed the whole issue though next to go in is the ignitor just wondering if wen i put that in the timing has to be done?

[selk]

hows ur timing belt....last time replaced

[JDM-086]

the ignitor didnt fix it and its not the timing belt, piston 1 is a little lower on compression to the rest but doesnt solve the super rich issue.

[JDM-086]

100,145,150,145 is the compression, alternator is puttin out slightly lower than normal voltage, its a 4ac alt btw

[JDM-086]

who wouldve guessed the difference changing the timing while in diagnostics would b lol, seems like that was the major part of the issue, now just gotta change my dizzy, ignitor, coil, and get a 4age alternator in there. and sort that compression in piston 1 and then i think all should b good thank you all so far for your help been much appreciated and special thanks to the guys who helped me out that extra hand u no who u r.