Starting problems

[Granto]

hey guys.. i've been having intermittant problems with my car starting for some time.

the problem is, sometimes it just dosen't want to start.

othertimes it does.

the connection to the starter is alright, and the starter signal is fine it seems too..

im gonna get some degreaser and degrease and sand back all of the earthing points I can find..

but from what i can see, all there is too it is a big chunky power cable, a signal cable and an earth connected to the gearbox type area.

What happens is, sometimes i'll go to start it, and it cranks, but not enough then dies out, if I keep trying sometimes it works.. sometimes it dies out and needs a jump/push start.

I noticed yesterday that after trying to crank it a few times, the positive and negative cables connected from the battery were really hot.

I'm just trying to get my car to being 100% perfect.

It might not be realted, but every now and then my accessories belt will whine.

No matter how tight it is.

It's a new belt, correct size, correct vvvvv length too. I was thinking maybe a problem with my alternator is causing this. I'm guessing the more drain from the alterantor, the harder it is to spin it, so it could be slipping due to that? but I have no idea.

Grant.

[Hen is a total nutcase]

Your starting problem sounds like your battery is stuffed. Get a multimeter across the terminals while someone tries starting it. If it drops below 11V or so it's time for a new one.

Also make sure all connections are clean and good. Though it sounds like you've already done that.

Hen

[Granto]

hm, i'll see about doing that today..

it's one of those batteries with that "eye" on it, and the colour is blue which is meant to mean "all good!" white indicates flat, and red = dead. It says blue (even when it wont start) usually if I leave it for a bit it'll start up (even if it seems to run flat)

If a new battery fails, I'll have to go for new cabling I think, that'd be a fun weekend http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

Grant.

[mattysshop]

could be the starter itself... the brushes are on there way out.. sometimes it makes good ctc sometimes not..

get yourself a AE82 twinky (4AGE) starter.. bolts on.. and can start a high comp 4AGE with ease.. (unlike a 4AC one)

[Granto]

i have an ae82 twinky starter in there, the engine is a 4age.

[mattysshop]

and it could be farked.. if the batter passes a load test.. and the grounds are good.. and the starter is geting a good power source.. the starter is stuffed.. very very common.. especially with 4AGE's cos the starter is between block/exhaust.. they don't like heat.. get it recoed or something.. will need new brushes and plunger..

[bahnugget]

my celica's just recently had a problem similar to this, it would just randomly not start.. turned out it was the contacts in the starter solenoid, they were charred to a royal crisp..

when it does start, does it crank really slow? and when it doesnt start, does it do somthing like click, or does nothing happen?

[Granto]

"when it does start, does it crank really slow? and when it doesnt start, does it do somthing like click, or does nothing happen?"

It always cranks. But yes, sometimes just really slow (and dies out and needs a push/jump start)

but sometimes jump start dosen't work.

which sucks when you're some where by yourslef, pushing the car along, jumping in, and getting it to run (like what happened the night i was bringing jezza some stuff! lol!)

Grant.

[bahnugget]

oh.. sorry, i was under the impression it wasnt cranking.. if thats the case its probably something more sinister.. like.. wiring http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/tdn.gif
does it have spark? fuel coming thru?

[Granto]

yes spark, yes fuel.

It probably is the starter actually, that or the wiring, ah.

funfun http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[mattysshop]

$10 sayin it's the starter http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/wink.gif

[Brenton 86]

I have problem which i think could be similar to this,
Sometimes when i try kick it over, it just goes 'tick' 'tick' untill it randomly works like normal. It sounds like the same problem except it dosent slowly kick over its either on or off. When it kicks its at full voltage like normal. I just keep trying untill it finally works but sometimes its starts quickly and sometimes iv gotta keep trying for ages.

[Granto]

Are you s ure it has full voltage with that?

The ticking sound (from what i remember of working on a ca18 ae86) usually meant that the battery was too dead to start the engine, and it'd tick tick tick, so perhaps for some reason it's not getting enough voltage?

I have no real idea about electronics, like, if a lot of current/voltage goes to a wire, can it overheat a little and need to cool down to efficiently transfer electricity? or if the wire is too cold, will that hinder transfer of electricity?

maybe i should hire some books.

Grant.

[damo101]

cooler wire conducts electricity better....each wire has a bit of resistance..the more current u put through it,the hotter it gets..something like the heating element in your water kettle..except that the heating element has high resistance compared to ur normal wire...so if u wait a while so that it cools u can get a very little more electricity through it..but its insignificant if its only a few degrees different..if u can cool the wire to -273 C u have a superconductor with 0 resistance..

[Granto]

So what'd happen if the wire was really hot to the touch? (as mine gets sometimes) would that make it harder to get electricity through? maybe the wire is just really old.

i notice this happens when you keep trying to jump start a car with dodgy cables, the cables and handles really got very hot..

Grant.

[damo101]

So what'd happen if the wire was really hot to the touch? (as mine gets sometimes) would that make it harder to get electricity through? maybe the wire is just really old.

i notice this happens when you keep trying to jump start a car with dodgy cables, the cables and handles really got very hot..

Grant.[/b]

yea definitely..let it cool for a while and it'll conduct better...if the wire was shorter it would have less resistance as well..

[bahnugget]

while the resistance of wire changes with temperature, over such short distances, and with the heavy guage wire your starter motor has, it shouldn't make enough difference to be noticeable... (talking less than half an ohm at the MOST)


that said, the wire should never get too hot to touch anyway, unless you're either cranking it for ages, or your starter is broken (an electric motor draws alot of current when it can't turn)

[damo101]

while the resistance of wire changes with temperature, over such short distances, and with the heavy guage wire your starter motor has, it shouldn't make enough difference to be noticeable... (talking less than half an ohm at the MOST)[/b]

exactly....not significant at all