My Dilema

[Andor]

Until recently ive been planing to build a reasonably serious N/A 4age to drop into my hachi. But now i'm just not sure, im thinking perhaps turbo would be a good way to go. It seems a lot of people start out N/A and end up going turbo anyway and a decent N/A setup can cost some serious money. My aim is to build a car that is seriously fun to drive. I want a broad power band and decent response (not much lag). I have a budget of about $5k and want to fully rebuild the engine, starting with a 100kW 'redtop' 4age. My concern with turbo is reliability. It won't be much fun if im breaking things all the time (diffs, axles, t50s, engines?). Also im worried about how much extra heat turbo will be putting into the water and particularly oil systems. It could get very expensive if I have to put in a w5x, hilux rear end, a big ass radiator, oil cooler, intercooler etc. Also I don't want to put too much extra weight on the car, otherwise i'd have bought an s13. Just after peoples thoughts to help me decide. All opinions welcome, constructive or otherwise.

[MAT713]

Cheap
Reliable
Horsepower


Pick 2 of the above!!

if i want a turbo sprinter, $5000 budget, CA18DET would be the best choice, front cuts r cheap, strong gearbox, comes with good radiator blah blah, just need a diff!

[Jason]

i suppose it depends on how much you get your motor for, i basicly got a free gze thats was in good nick, and decided to rebuild it for under 1g. with manifolds and bigger sc

[Andor]

5k budget excludes the motor and I don't mind going over budget a bit.

[Big T]

For 5k (excluding engine) you should be able to afford a turbo conversion in. Just to give a rough estimate for costs:

2nd hand Turbo: $500
Turbo manifold: $500
Dump pipe: $200
Ebay IC: $200
IC piping: $5-800
GZE Ecu: $100
GZE Injectors: $100
Wiring: $3-400
Oil/water lines: $200
Oil cooler setup: $150-400 (depends on the type)
Exhaust: $600 (or just cut and reuse the old one)
Stuff that always comes up: $1000

So that gives a total of around $4-5k. If you really wanted to splurge then you could also get an aftermarket ECU as with the above setup you could only push about 150rwkw. Keeping it below this would probably be a good idea so you dont have to upgrade the box/diff as well. It'll all depend on your driving style though.

You seriously need to consider what YOU want from the car. I'm still in the middle of my turbo conversion and i've been going on for almost 2 years now because i decided midway to upgrade the entire turbo setup. Figure out a budget and stick to it.

Eddie.

[Course_Out]

If your building a car purely for the joy of driving then I guess you have to ask yourself exactly what you want. From what your saying I'd be inclined to point you in the n/a direction: decent power, broad powerband (assuming you don't go silly with your cams) and to top it off a n/a 4age makes the most pornographic sound known to man!

It's pretty unlikely that you will be destroying drivelines with a n/a set up as well, whereas with turbo your definitely going to want to replace the diff/gbox with something tougher unless you drive very gently

[mattysshop]

i am considering doing a small RB20 bb turbo upgrade on mine.. with myself doing most of the work.. i should be able to get away with it under 2G.. and that includes me making a sealed plenum for the quads..

even with my high compression engine.. 5-6psi should be very easy.. and a ball bearing turbo from a RB20 should spool very easy.. with a nice steampipe manifold, and small tube and fin intercooler, with short 2" piping.. should be on boost in no time!

oil coolers you can get for next to nothing at the wreckers almost every single FWD 4AFE/4AGE rolla has one on there.. i'm using one of them and temp is far more stable..

[slydar]

4agte's are bung. NA FTW!

but seriously. the reliability factor is what makes na so attractive. and the simplicity.

a T50 and lsd'd T series can last pretty much forever behind an NA 4ag. it is fairly well proven that this is not the case when going turbo.. why do you think there is 4 differant brand aftermarket bellhousings to fit W boxes to 4a's?

i say NA. if you want turbo. get a silvia.. add it up 86+suspension+turbo conversion..

i have driven NA 4ag powered cars on the track.. it is all you need to have ALOT of fun.

do you actually have a small port in your hachi? i would say do that first, stock ecu na.. do alot of suspension work.. then get out on the track and decide then..

i wouldnt bother with a turbo 4ag either.. just get an sr. not a CA though, those motors are fucking dunga's.

[Andor]

4ac in it atm. I like to do things once and do them properly. I have pretty much decided to stick with N/A. So i'll be rebuilding a 100kW with raised compression, quads, aftermarket ecu and some headwork. I've got some pretty decent suspension which im putting in this weekend. Thanks for the opinions guys. Feel free to keep adding to the topic for the benefit of others.

[SEXY 16]

what i would do
1 bushings all round
2 fit lsd rear end to car
3 buy bilsteins and proper matched springs
4 good wheels and new tyres and get it aligned and tracked
5 proper steering wheel and seat
6 learn to drive it flat out on the limit with that package cupped to the 4ac before you upgrade the engine
sexys 2 cents

[Andor]

Heres what I have:
t3 5-links (no bushes needed)
AJPS Coilovers w/ Tokico HTS (8kg springs)
Tokico HTS on rear (6kg springs)
New bushes for front
Camber tops and NCRAs
14x7s with new Yokohama C-Drive Tyres
Nardi Wheel, no seat yet.
LSD within a month

As im rebuilding the 4ag it will be some time before its fitted so I'll have plenty of time to drive it with the 4ac. Hope to goto winton next month with a welded diff and definatly in july with lsd.

[SEXY 16]

a good set up
lsd a must

[NickAE86]

in hindsight i wish i'd gone n/a instead of turbo...sure turbo is fun but a tough n/a (as dimitri mentioned) is more reliable & more simplistic.

i've driven & been taken for a spirited drive in a 4age that only has 106kw atw but fuck its fun...response, predictability, overall funness it has it all over a 4agte

who cares how quick you can get up to speed...the fun is in the corners & imo n/a comes out on top...just the sound of the engine is enough to make you cream your pants http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/laugh.gif

[johnny_08]

hey paul what lsd would u reccomend?

[Medwin_3sGTE_AE86]

IMO NA is the way to go..! spend the extra cash on suspension/chassis and other goodies..!

[monkeymajik]

in hindsight i wish i'd gone n/a instead of turbo...sure turbo is fun but a tough n/a (as dimitri mentioned) is more reliable & more simplistic.

i've driven & been taken for a spirited drive in a 4age that only has 106kw atw but fuck its fun...response, predictability, overall funness it has it all over a 4agte

who cares how quick you can get up to speed...the fun is in the corners & imo n/a comes out on top...just the sound of the engine is enough to make you cream your pants http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/laugh.gif[/b]


I have a turbo 4a, I feel the same way. If I ever have another ae86, or i blow up this one, it will be N/A.

[mattysshop]

on second thought.. might keep mine NA.. i'll build a turbo warrior car later..

[SEXY 16]

hilux diff with 4.3 centre with lsd for n/a
hilux diff with 3.7 centre with lsd for turbo 86

[johnny_08]

do they connect straight up to the driveline? or do u have to customise?

[mattysshop]

hilux diff is a good way to increase the GVM of a sprinter.. for NA shouldn't need anymore than a T series..

[johnny_08]

gvm?

[slydar]

unsprung weight? drive train losses?

both.

anyway T series for na hachi's

[Big T]

GVM= Gross Vehicle Mass.

The hilux diff doesn't add that much weight. With the peace of mind that you will practically NEVER EVER break another centre or axle i think it's worth the extra 18kgs. Another option is an F-series diff... i'll be using one behind a 200+rwkw 4agte and im confident it'll be able to handle it easily.

Eddie.

[mattysshop]

F would be a good option.. not tooooooooo heavy... and the crown comes a bit closer than the hilux G series as far as track is concerned.. F series LSD's are out there, but in australia hilux LSD's are quite common... for 4wding and stuff.. plus you can get air lockers! haha mad!

[johnny_08]

whats an F series off? (sorry to hijack the thread)

[mattysshop]

7.5" c/wheel..
8" hilux
6.75" t series

[RobertoX]

going turbo (on 4ac) was the best idea i ever had, i love it...

but... i wouldnt mind a 20v with nitros or something like that in the future