GT4 Celica Short strokes

[v-tec]

Can you?

If so, how much work and is it worth it?

Otherwise im looking for some adjustable shocks or something for ae86 struts Yay $$$$$$

[slydar]

Can you?

If so, how much work and is it worth it?

Otherwise im looking for some adjustable shocks or something for ae86 struts Yay $$$$$$[/b]

yeah they fit, youll need a spacer and possilby a differant retaining nut as the thread pitch does vary between some toyotas.

we have AGX shox in stock if you want some man. theyre mr2 type, so theyre short stroke aswell.

[rthy]

I used to use st-185 shocks and now st-204 shockers, as sydar said, use a spacer or do as I did and shorten the sturt 60mm.

[EVOSTi]

ST185 shocks have a body length of 328mm so are fairly short. as a guide i was able to purchase some from my local supplier for $150 a pair in non adjustable KYB, not sure what the retail is on them.

[v-tec]

If i did plan to make the short stroke shocks fit (that im currently running in Ra60 Struts) into the ae86 struts i think i have two means of attack if im right.

1. Put spacers in (heard this makes it pointless for them being short stroke, cause then it just makes them space out as much as normal ones)

2. Cut down the strut... obviously this means work and precision

is this right?

Dimitri if it comes to it ill give you guys a yell about coming to get some shocks for ae86 struts.
Cheers

[roadsailing]

you need to shorten the strut and use a spacer, just like when you use HTS shocks

[RobertoX]

just make sure the piston length is shorter than stock then use a spacer

i have plenty of short stroke front shocks in excel g and agx...i also have spacers to suit

[rthy]

Dave is right,

lets say you use that gt4 shocker, it is 60mm shorter and therfore if you use it in a standard strut then you still end up with a 60mm shorter stroke due to the shorter shaft length. If you do the same thing again but with a cut down strut then you get a 120mm shorter stroke as far as I understand.

[rthy]

wouldnt it be 60mm short stroke and 120mm shorter in total?

[RobertoX]

I think there may be some confusion here between the terms "stroke" and "open length" (or in the case of installing the shock to the sprinter strut "effective open length")

[v-tec]

Did the GT4 celicas actually come with short stroke shocks?
im really not sure on the subject, just going by what i was told when i bought the car.

All the info is appreciated, but unless the gt4 shocks pretty much fit into the ae86 ones ill probly just find some others and sell the Celica stuff as a lot.

[psychofox]

the shocks you are referring to are STANDARD Length for the GT4, as this is the application thy were designed for.

There is a very obvious lack of knowledge as to what short stroke, uncompressed height, spring captivity, bump & rebound travel etc here.

Stock sprinter shocks are the following dimensions:

Cartridge length: 400mm
Max stroke height: 604mm
Min stroke height: 418mm
Stroke: 186mm

SO the equilibrium point for the for top of the the shock to sit when the weight of the car is at rest is:

418+(186/2) = 511mm

above the base of the shock. This gives us an even rebound and compression stroke.

This is about what the height is for standard springs. SO say you want to drop the car 60mm. The hieght of the top of the shock at rest is now at 451mm - Now you have 33mm of bump travel and 146mm of rebound. this is not matched. It also means that for most shocks are so far into the bump travel, that it is in the higher damping rate zone of the shocks, which makes them feel harder. This is why we need to install short stroke shocks on the front of an AE86.

The normal shock that is used to short stroke is the AE92/SW20 length. They are normally installed into ~40mm shortened struts with a 25mm spacer in the base to equalise correct the shock position. The cartridges have the following lengths (TRD Yellows)

Cartridge length: 333mm
Max stroke height: 476mm
Min stroke height: 341mm
Stroke: 135mm

so the equalibrium point for the shock is now

25+341+(135/2) = 433.5mm.
as you can see this is pretty close to the 451mm figure we got before.

Say we use the 451mm figure we get a bump travel of 85mm and a rebound travel of 50mm. This is a much better situation to be in.

I hope this helps explain why short strokes are needed.

[rthy]

thanks for the good info, I now know my shockers are in their upper end of their stroke

[terryo]

I'm sick of shortening stuts the hard way, so I've made a jig at work so I can hold the strut tubes and shorten them by cutting off the top and re-threading to suit whatver new inserts and gland nut is needed. I can do both AE86 and RA40 sized strut legs ( 2 basic sizes for most Toyotas). anyone interested can PM me.

[ae86trueno]

I was curious how long it would take someone to do it that way,
i have always thought it would be easier .

PM Sent..

Ben.

[EVOSTi]

im interested in anyone who knows of a shock insert between 300 and 310mm!

good work teryo, ive always wondered why people do it the hard way!

[terryo]

the easiest solution appears to be rear MR2 inserts into cut down AE86 or RA40 legs. By selecting a nice long spring and keeping the threaded adjuster down low, you dont need to do anything else to have a useable lowered strut with decent stroke and keep the spring captive under rebound. that insert is available from me or many other people in various good brands, some of which are adjustable. I would however comment that many of the cheaper/standard inserts are not suitable for stiff springs (say any more than 5kg/mm or 275lb/in or greater) as they have inadequate damping resistance.

[jjoeworks]

I am confused. Is it the MR2 rear inserts or the front that are the most suitable. I always thoight it was the MR2 front/AE92 front that is best with a shorterned strut not the rear.

[EVOSTi]

terryo, do you distribute shocks? do you know of any shock insert of around 300-310mm body length? closest i have found is early 80's gold which has 317mm body length, or i know suzuki carry van has 270mm inserts which are the shorted i know of but are TOO short and have tiny pistons.

[RobertoX]

^ what are you trying to achieve with the shocks?

i can go through some catalouges for you if you like

[terryo]

I sell quite a lot of shocks thru my business, buit I'm not a commerical advertiser on this forum. check my website if intereted www.roadandtrack.net.au, alternatively take up the offer from other traders who do advertise on this forum. I have used the REAR Mr2 shocks on front of AE86. be aware that many of the 'cheap" shocks have inadequate rebound damping for stiff springs. stay away from fitments like Suzuki and other lightweight/softly sprung cars

[LordNafe]

SW20 MR2 rear shockies? Not AW11??

[EVOSTi]

that would be great if you could.

i have cusco S13 coilovers that im putting in the sprinter, they have inserts that are around 300-310mm body length. they are a bit worn but i want to replace them anyway as i want to run a softer spring (maybe 4kg) so they wouldnt really suite.

the trd website lists some shocks around 300mm with a longer stroke than the cuscos which would be ideal, but from what i understand trd get their shocks from tokico, bilstein etc so maybe i can get them elsewhere cheaper.

[terryo]

the TRD inserts & rear shocks I have are made by KYB for them. As best I can tell, its just the damping rates that are special. A lot of TRD stuff is just bought in parts with their logo on it. Some of it is specially made for them to their design, other stuff is just rebadged.
The MR2 SW20 are the inserts we use , because they are available in a range of price/quality units, eg Boge, Koni, KYB, Munroe. I will measure the inserts monday, but from memory they are 44mm shorter than stock sprinter/ra 40 ones.

[RobertoX]

SW20 MR2 rear shockies? Not AW11??[/b]

sw20 rears http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

[EVOSTi]

so... did anyone happen to notice an insert in their catalogues around the 300mm mark? http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/tongue.gif

[ae86trueno]

EP starlet 82/91 front

TRD Part No.
48511-EP840
Lmax(mm) 425.0
Lmin(mm) 316.0
Stroke(mm) 109
Rod dia.(mm) 22
Main body dia.(mm) 43.0
Cartridge length(mm) 301.5

Ben.

[EVOSTi]

thanks ae86trueno.

i also found other shocks from the trd catalogue: http://www.trdparts.jp/english/list_shock-cartridge.html

but i was hoping they were made by kyb or some other locally available brand? i can only assume the trd shocks would be uber expensive and i was hoping for a more cash friendly approach http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

[terryo]

if you want to call me at work tomorrow or friday, I'll measure various suitable inserts for you that I have in stock. 07-32018866. dont forget howeever, that as well as selecting the length you have to deal with the strut top machining and the thread on the gland nut that holds the insert. neither may suit your car. not all toyotas are the same in either regard. basically, if you want to have a unique set-up, be ready for time and effort to change other parts. when we re-machine the strut cases, we can use whatever thread we need to accept the gland nut that comes with new inserts.

[EVOSTi]

basically i dont really want to mod the strut casing (cusco s13 casing) i was hoping for a strut insert the right length with the right thread on the piston, if i have to find another gland nut thats ok.

also, i cant give an EXACT measurement of my insert as the gland nut is part of the insert and cannot be removed making for difficult measurement.

when i tested a gt4 shock in my casing, from memory the gland nut was the right thread as was the top of the piston but id have to confirm.

terryo, ill possibly give you a call tomorrow from work or on monday, i spose i ask for terry http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif thanks for helping me out.

[terryo]

OK, I think you have not really explained what you are trying to achieve. It sounds like you want to use a S13 strut in a Sprinter????????/ why would you bother ???
the thread on the shaft is of no consequence. its the diameter and length to suit your strut top

[EVOSTi]

the thread on the shaft IS important to me as i MUST use my nut on the top as it is not an ordinary nut rather one with a sort of 'sleave' which located it in the strut top.

basically i just need an insert of approx 300mm body length, gland nut i can sort out. but if its still ok ill try and call you monday.

[terryo]

none of the cataogues list the thread, so you are up the creek already.
I now understand that you want to keep the special nut for the spherical bearing inside strut top. I know what you are talking about.
You need to meausre the thread type or send me a nut. I'll work out if its some mongrel thread like the japs often do, or a standard like M14 x 1.5.

[EVOSTi]

thanks for going to the trouble. i tried calling you today but you were on the phone. ill check the thread on the piston tomorrow and give you a call, hopefully you can help me out but if not thats ok! http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

[terryo]

the shortest i can locate "off-the-shelf" is 313mm body length. Thats about the same as the stock Starlet one according to my books, so I assume the TRD version is short for some reason. I've called the KYB importer and they confirm thats the smallest they list. they also said the cusco legs are one-offs and many use a unique gland nut. It sounds like you might have to fix the cusco inserts. if you send them to me I see what I can do. anything is fixable, its just the cost.

[EVOSTi]

thanks heaps for going to all this trouble for me, its much appreciated. i also called around a few places, some had koni inserts in stock that were 300mm but wanted $495 each, where as some cold custom make a shock for the same price. there was one place that had a shock in stock that was $200 each which is pretty good but its in melbourne and wasnt sure if it would fit.

also emailed castle hill toyota and they can get the 301mm TRD starlet shocks for just over $200, they confirmed the piston thread was 14x1.50 but couldnt confirm the gland nut thread.

[anastasios]

i was just wondering if pedders vrd sw20 rears would be too soft with a 8kg spring? other wise i will be goin for a more expensive brand

[v-tec]

I ended up running these and they work fine. Needs better springs tho. Just the shocks use spacers in the strut

[anastasios]

yea ill probably be using 8kg springs and the shocks have been shortened to suit tokico hts, so im assuming that i wouldnt need a spacer, thanks for the info

[anastasios]

hm ive measured the inside of my strut tube and it seems to be approx 332mm long, but thats not allowing for the gland but to be screwed in, say i run a 328mm shock then i would have 5mm of room to tighten the gland nut, is it neccesary to have the full 10mm of the gland nut in? so therefore sw20 or ae92 would be too long for my application meaning i need either tokicos or st185 shocks would any one have any exact dimensions for these shocks?
thanks