20v: Silvertop or Blacktop???

[HYPNTK]

I've read that the Blacktop has the same power as the Silvertop and that the only difference is the Blacktop has lighter internals which lets it "spin" better and rev easier.

Whats the go? Is there such a huge quality difference? I'de assume they both are mad engines. Is it worth spending the extra money for a Blacktop or can I just get the same effect from a Silvertop?

Cheers guys

[Hyuga]

yes coz they are newer engine.

[LordNafe]

Blacktops aren'ts "just a newer engine". They do have lighter internals, adna re said to make about 5hp more http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/tongue.gif I('d lvoe a blacktop, but a silvertop is about ahlf the rpice http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Gilly]

i would get a silver top if you are going to run an aftermarket computer, and a black top if you were going to run factory. in both cases you'll be able to run open throttles. silvertop with aftermarket ECU will probably cost a touch more than blacktop on factory management, but would be heaps better power and tune wise.

i don't think there is enough cool stuff different in the BT than the ST to justify the extra expense they demand.

[rthy]

theres only 3kw difference with a standard ecu. A blacktop has lighter rods but if the crank is much different is open to debate. The flywheel is also lighter. Reports are that the on-road difference just isnt there

[selk]

blacktop has a higher compression ratio.. 11:1 than a silvertop which has 10.5:1..... s/t internals r stronger than the blacktop ones

[Javal]

Silvertop FTW. whether you wanna build a tough N/A motor or go forced induction, you will get better results from a silver top. Although the blacktop has lighter internals, as said before, they are weaker. so i wouldn't start feeding boost into them in a hurry. Silvertops are also cheaper to replace when they blow http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/tongue.gif

[SLO-030]

We all know the difference between the two but the BT also has slightly smaller ports Toyota found the air speed in the ST to be too slow.

This is going from what i was told by the people that build the PBR clubmans here in adelaide

[HYPNTK]

cool, thanks for the opinions guys...seems like silvertop with aftermarket ecu is the go for price and reliability and fun factor (coz at the end of the day its all about fun)...has anyone had any experience with the wolf 3d ecu's???

i've been recommended to use one of these, and is it possible to buy one with a program to run a 4age so i can plug it all in and take it to a tuning shop or do you have to get it fitted and tuned at same time before you drive it?

[Monk]

cool, thanks for the opinions guys...seems like silvertop with aftermarket ecu is the go for price and reliability and fun factor (coz at the end of the day its all about fun)...has anyone had any experience with the wolf 3d ecu's???

i've been recommended to use one of these, and is it possible to buy one with a program to run a 4age so i can plug it all in and take it to a tuning shop or do you have to get it fitted and tuned at same time before you drive it?[/b]


Wolfs maybe an old ECu but there proven. the best part is you can downlaod maps off the net. so yes you can just throw a map on and drive to the dyno shop.

I think sam_q knows a bit about these.
You might wanna wait and see what he has to say http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

[SLO-030]

The wolfs are a good ECU... The only thing that has let them down is the mapping gaps..

We have found on jag V12s that the WOLF V3's the 500rmp gap is to big for cruising on freeways. The ECU doesnt know how much fuel to put in at around say 2200rpm

Wolf have fixed this in the V4. They now have maps every 125rpm not 500rpm

[LordNafe]

Razorback ECU http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/wink.gif Cheap and good!

[Monk]

And not to mention..

I got one right here for sale http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Dori_Dori]

hahahhaha^^^^^^

Cheers

[HYPNTK]

hmmm razorback ey...havn't heard much about these ones...better than wolf or on par?

[slydar]

new wolfs resolution is fine. theyre 250 rpm incrememnts now. if you buy 2nd hand they might not be.

i wouldnt say razorbacks are on par with wolf, but they do have their place as there is nothing else on offer anywhere near as cheap.

our shop uses and recomends adaptronic. on a silver top fitted and with a good fully driveable base map, we do them for $1400.

[Monk]

As slydar said.. If you have the bucks go for a Adapronic..

But if your after a cheaper ecu, I would recommend Razorback as there cheap and good enough for most of your needs.

you proberly havnt heard much about them because there kinda new, and deisgned for hachis in mind, not too sure how many are out there now.
www.razorbackecu.com

There are a few ECUs out there each have there good points.
it comdes down to what you really want out of an ecu

[HYPNTK]

thanks guys...well i want my car as an almost-every day driver and more importantly be competetive on the track (but drift days are few and far between compared to daily street driving)...do different ecu's work better for street applications than track or vice-versa? can't you have the best of both worlds on one program/map?

[Hyuga]

i think you only need one map on n/a engine

[HYPNTK]

i think you only need one map on n/a engine[/b]
yeah i'm sure i'll get it sorted once the friggen thing is actually sitting in my engine bay http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[zathunman]

as ive told u before dude...

the bt engine has slightly different cam profiles, larger quad tbs, larger ports, weaker but lighter internals and higher comp...

silver top however, in my opinion is a much better option as a basis to modify from as pros far outweight the cons compared to the bt!

my microtech lt10s was cheap, easy t6o install... came with a very drivable base map and everything you need to get it running!

cherrs tim

[rthy]

what if u run a sik auto computer?

[HYPNTK]

yeah thanks...all this info is helping my choice of ecu and engine...what are your views on hand controlers? important to have one, is it worth the extra money? will i be able to do anything with it or is it best to leave it up to the pro's hehe (i know the answer to that one but just wandering whether its worth having one)