ke and ae's with lockers

[pebbles]

hey guys
was wondering how a ke70 would slide/not slide with a locker?

same question for an ae71, 1.6 litre ftw http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/tongue.gif

thanx guys

[gottago]

it slides because both axles are locked to move at the same speed.

try this, go in circles dump the clutch at 5k see what happens in an open rear end. then try it in a locked rear...

[LAZY]

Stupid idea, illegal if car is roadworthy, induces understeer at slower speeds and increases tire wear compared to an lsd rear center.

[parrot]

I'm with Lazy. If you put a locker in a road car you're a (insert appropriate adjective here).

And yes I know as I had an Datsun 1600 with a locker years ago. Had it out pretty quick though as it is

1. very dangerous (particularly, but not only, in the wet)
2. breaks axles
3. Roots your tyres
4. illegal
5. everyone on the street except your mates will think you are a dickhead

But the last time I expressed this opinion I got flamed, so what would I know.

For a trailered race or whatever car they are fine.

[gottago]

ive had lockers in all my cars, prefer a locker than an open. then again prefer and LSD to a locker...

just dont drive it in the wet ay, sero the ass goes everywhere...

but i still dont think they are that bad shit for shit, but thats just my opinion. ive never had problems in the dry. never blew a diff or axles.. never noticed any drastically increased tyre wear tho..

[RyGuy86]

^^^^ I Agree with all the above statements.

However... this is my 2 cents and i think that it concurs with everyones thoughts.


1) Locker - the cheap mans LSD. if you cant afford an LSD - 2 way is the best in a small car, because they respond better less power then a 1.5 or 1 way in my experience. However yes they are prone to break, and in the end may cost you more in replacing stock diffs or axles.


2) LSD - if you can afford the 1400 for a good lsd and the $500 to have it fitted to your stock diff, and while you are the getting all the carrier bearings and seals replaced.. then its totally worth it. Once you have put it in, you are set.

However with both of these applications... are not soo great for road use...

but only for this reason.. when you are driving slow.. expecially in a mulitstory carpark.. everytime you turn.. your wheels will spin.. and its going to make you look like a right wanker.

Driving an LSD on the road is okay.. driving a locker on the road is okay.. but just remember that your car is getting power to both wheels all the time.. and its going to take its toll on your other parts such as tires..



http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/2thumbs.gif

if its for street use and not too much on the track.. go the mild LSD.. it costs more.. but its not going to cost you heaps on tyres.

[DRFT - 86]

Lockers for grip driving suk dick.. unless you have the power to slide the corners.. which isnt really grip driving now is it.... they squeal around every corner and give you understeer... feels completly shithouse

Lockers for slidy action = quite nice.. I was amazed at how much difference it made for hanging the ass out after I fitted a weldy.. and since I like to hang my ass out frequently this is a great thing...

I havent really driven my car much since fitting a locker as I didnt have my license.... I did take it for a spin through the hills and it does suck... open center would be way better.... I get my license back in a day or 2 and will see how it goes for daily driving.... I reckon I will probably swap it back for the open center, but then again who knows... Im yet to drive it in the rain/wet.........

Also I dont find parking difficult at all..... sure it skips and all that shit, but its still easy to park....

When I can afford to get a new diff and LSD I will........ but for now I'll see how I go with it, if I find it overly annoying I will swap it back to the original center...

[AE71 Rolla]

I had a locker in the 71 and it was the same as driving with the open pegger apart from the tires schreeching and having a little difficulty to park with no power steering. http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/tongue.gif I found it wasn't dangerous in the wet at all even with the GTE in it. It just let the rear end easier to slide and control because you know it's not going to kick from two tyres to just the one.

[gottago]

It just let the rear end easier to slide and control because you know it's not going to kick from two tyres to just the one.[/b]

That is a pretty good comment. i had a vr 5litre and the lsd was dodgey sumtimes it would kick sumtimes it wouldnt, same with the open i had, very unpredictable which i thought was pretty unsafe... so i locked the bastard problem solved haha

[pebbles]

so, apart from the dickhead side and the understeer side and the wheels squealling side, would the 4k powerhouse in a ke actually slide descent, in the dry or not?

[RyGuy86]

so, apart from the dickhead side and the understeer side and the wheels squealling side, would the 4k powerhouse in a ke actually slide descent, in the dry or not?[/b]

yes it would be fine!

just got to drive it HARD!

talk to Truenosedan or Craig_86, they both have slyderz like this. we Craig does now.. and lawson did.

[Jonny Rochester]

Ask yourself this. How would a ke70 slide without a locker?

[Rob]

Ask yourself this. How would a ke70 slide without a locker?[/b]

Fairly shit, trust me http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/laugh.gif

[reg450]

i got locker in my sprinter now i drive it every day yes is annoying parking and shit like that but u get used to it dont use a high profile tyre or ur car will i mean vibrate its head off when turning sharp if your are responsible a locker is not dangerouse but it hangs out nicely its good fun. go for it u will like it.

[keiichi]

LOCKER = BEST BANG FOR BUCK! full stop (thats for drifting mind)

[julzy]

why dont you try something like this: http://www.rollaclub.com/board/index.php?showtopic=10419

its a contraption which only locks the diff under heavy load.

its only like 250$ and is much more practical then a cig locker.

[roadsailing]

lockers are fukken grate, but if you cant drive already, dont get one.

[R1CHYY]

shims r great for grip, but bang for buck drift mod, go the locker, do it properly and it should be strong. And i find them only dangerous in the wet if ur not paying attention otherwise ive never had a problem and they r great fun.

[caibs]

just take it easy in the wet
ke70's are probably a good car to learn how to handle a locker

i've had alot of welded diffs in my ke55, and broken them all. but for $50 for a new diff who gives two fucks? and with the skinny pizza cutters it doesnt squeal that much when turning corners, so you cant whinge about having to buy new tyres considering you can pick up a set of tyres on rims in the quokaa for next to nothing.

end of the day
lockers are fun
but dont be a retard in the wet or you WILL crash.

[keiichi]

yeh whet can be dangerous, my front right wheel found that out http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/tongue.gif ... just make sure you run good tyres, make it a rule and youll have no problems.

[Course_Out]

I've got a locker in my ae71 and the only thing i can say bad about it is that it skips and chirps doing tight slow turns. If I drove it every day it'd probably annoy me but i don't so its not a problem.

As for them being crap for grip driving I took mine for a good strap through the local hills, both open corners and some hairpins and the only thing i noticed different (other than the extra noise) was that I could make the car turn on the brake easier and I didnt bog down with one wheel spinning exitng tight corners corners.

If I had a spare $1500 I'd have an LSD but if your choices are locker or open diff and you like to drive hard I vote for a locker all the way, just use your head when your driving in the wet and you will be fine.

[roadsailing]

if you dont notice the downsides of a locker when driving on fast twisty roads, then you are not driving fast enough!

the only tway a locker is good is value for money, ie some value for very very little money.

I still intend to get an LSD the frist opportunity i can be bothered!

[driftke70]

my rolla royce is locked and i wouldnt have it any other way, its just too good, if my diff wasnt locked though it would pretty much deny any point of me owning the car. I slide it every day of the week, It is my daily, and to me the few negatives dont come close to out weighing the positives. Its saved my skin many a times, when im driving grip which i do just as much as sliding i love the oversteer, just stepping on it and knowing exactly what the back ends going to do every time is to me, safe, confidence building, faster, more enjoyable, stronger ect ect.

Keep your tyre pressures up and go out there at hit it.

You cant possibly expect people who buy ketos to fork out the $$ for an lsd, sure some people can, but the reason people buy ketos is because of their pure bang for buck, 3 g's will see you happily drifting with a 4age ketos. Its once you have learnt how to drive ect you start making the big decisions like I will be in the near future, suspension and lsd, it can all add up very quickly if your not careful.

[4awagon]

do axle break easy in ke 70 with a locker i had one in my ke 20 and i broke at least a axle a month

[keiichi]

it all depends on who locks it..... there is a way you can do it that will see you dont brake axles, strip splines or brake anything for that matter. i hear that ke diffs break easy though anyway.

[ae71]

it all depends on who locks it..... there is a way you can do it that will see you dont brake axles, strip splines or brake anything for that matter. i hear that ke diffs break easy though anyway.[/b]

how many was are there to weld a centre? i thought it was either welded or it wasnt, best pack a desent bit of weld in there, dont want the welds to break or the could fk your centre..

also im going to weld mine when it gets back on the road, i have a spare diff anyway so if i dont like it i can swap them, then swap back to the locker for a drift day/wet seson etc..

this have been disscust may of times. in another thread on another site, it was said that lockers dont make much understeer, well the diffrence would be so small (mountain driving)... my question to people who say it dose make it under exessively more, did it before you welded it up?

also on a side not, one of the top 86 drifters in aus, borrowd a locker off of one of my mates for a round cause his lsd farkd its self, he said it made it under more when drifting, but he recons he wouldn't of been even competitive if it was open.. this guy has some skills, he finnished 2nd in drift aus... so yeah, that jsut reinforces that lsd are the go, just open's arnt

[keiichi]

what you are supposed to do is take the centre out, remove the small rod thing in the middle so that you can get some big washers and put a bolt through where the axle normally goes, tighten up the bolt, tack it, test it with a spare spline, then re-tighten it weld oround the those bevil gears remove the bolts, return the little rod thing, weld the other two gears and etc... and weld it to the housing.... also i think it helps if you pre heat the whole centre first (excluding the crown wheel)..... etc etc

[keiichi]

i didnt do this with my old diff and i broke bearings and blew up the cantre many times.... then i did it right once and i havnt bro0ken anything in 7 months.... i didnt put that much weld in there either....
also if you can get a hold of a powerful stick welder and some 3.2mm nickel based rods then youre set.

[ae71]

also if you can get a hold of a powerful stick welder and some 3.2mm nickel based rods then youre set.[/b]

stick welder FTL.. http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/tongue.gif better than a gas mig?

so how dose taking it apart and welding each peice individualy make you not break axels? thought it would only make the welds on the centre stronger i.e. making them last andthe centre last a little longer...?

[20sil]

Im going to get a diff place to weld mine, so if it breaks just take it back to them, plus i dont have a welder anyway.

[keiichi]

yes stick welding is stronger then mig welding.... and then using nickel based stick is about 5 times stronger then GP stick. its not the welding of each piece that makes you not brake axles and bearings and stripping splines. you see there is actually play and movement in all the bevil gears. when you weld it without it bolted down tight (its the ones with the axles coming in that are important) the metal expends and shrinks as you weld and it pulls on it to one direction, so when youre done the side bevil gears arent perfecty straight with the axles. so as the load is applied to the wheels from the tyres trying to grip, whether you drifting or turning fast, un-even load is sent down or up the axle and it applies more pressure to one side of the spline or the bearings in the brakes for eg. im pretty sure its like when the axle twists, if you have even load then it just twist but if you have un-even load then it bends also. my Pa who has been an engineer for the last 60 years explained this to me and this is the best i could translate it. im really bad at discriptions so yeh.... anyway, i did this to my diff and and its been fine, its a borg warner one too, only a little bit stronger then ke ae ones, if stronger at all, and my car is heavier.

[Hen is a total nutcase]

Whoa, there are some interesting opinions here on how to weld centres.

Firstly, the technique you use to weld the centre will have no bearing on whether your break axles or not. Axles break because of the shock loading and fully reversed stress cycling they receive. You only have to worry about your welding technique if you actually break the centre or your spider gears come loose and start spinning again.

My advice if you want to lock a diff is to preheat it first with an oxy or similar. Then when it's hot (wood chars when you hold it against the diff) hit it with a MIG.

On an S series its hard to get in through the tiny inspection holes but weld the spider gears to each other and then to the casing.

On a T series and most other Toyota centres I have seen it's much easier. Weld the spider gears to each other and each spider gear to the carrier. I've never had a centre fail on me (out of probably 15 welded) since I learnt how to do it properly.

Hen

[DRFT - 86]

this have been disscust may of times. in another thread on another site, it was said that lockers dont make much understeer, well the diffrence would be so small (mountain driving)... my question to people who say it dose make it under exessively more, did it before you welded it up?[/b]

No not the way it understeers now......... its not uncontrollable or anything, just more so annoying.. because you are constantly fighting the rear through the steering wheel as it wants to push you out........ feels gay I reckon... it would be good if you had the power to slide it..

[4ac_mang]

welding the diff was the very first mod i ever did to a sprinter...
only commplaint is i went through tyres really quickly... best fun i ever had lol
as has been said before best bang for buck mod out there

Cheers
Daniel

[driftke70]

you want to do the opposite hen, you want it to stay cool because when it heats up to much the pinion gear warps, causes noise and vibrations and failure, I was talking to duncan at top cog who does mine, does a terrific job. Only do small amounts at a time, actually put plates of 8mm steel in there and weld around them, when hes done he rests the whole lot into a thing of kitty litter to help with heat dissapation. Mine is far quieter than others i have been in, hasnt broken and it is raped daily.

As for tyre wear I run remington light truck tyres on the rear now and they hardly wear at all, they cop a flogging every day of the week from a 16v.

[jono86]

light truck tires FTW!!! http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

[Hen is a total nutcase]

Drift KE, I'm not too convinced about warping/wear problems due to the heat of welding.

The reason I like to preheat is to improve the penetration of the weld.

In any case, I feel that once a diff is welded it is fucked anyway.

Hen