Doing up a 4AC

[superbmobile]

I have a 4ac sprinter and i dont want to spend $1500 on a 4age when i would only get 85kw at the fly wheel. for about $700 i could get a cam grind, shave the head, port the head and get a weber on the 4ac and it would probably be making close to 85 kw any way does anyone think its worth it.

[dr1ft-pig]

no, better off throwing on a dodgey turbo setup, and thrashing it while u save for a 4age

[Javal]

ghetto turbo setup or nos.

Any more is a waste of moneys.

[dr1ft-pig]

the turbo setup is good coz u can then sell it to a fellow 86 owner that wants revenge on their 4ac, u can sell the whole kit so they get everything they need whilst u throw whats left of your 4ac into the river

[superbmobile]

I dont want a turbo setup because the engine will blow too quickly and i couldnt be bothered setting it all up i still think a 4ac with work would be chep and fairly good i can slide ok with a stock 4ac so one with some work i think would be good.

[Dave]

lawsons lasted like 6 months and had 96km-ish :S if your going to do head work and shit, throw in another 200 and have a tought turbo 4ac :S all you have to do is chuck a thick headgasket in it and a turbo kit rather than wasting money redoing a 4ac head, theres stuff al shelf products available for it, i have researched it dude ... id go the turbo setup or the GE :)

[paulie]

4ac's have stupidly low compression.. whack a turbo on it, thrash the balls off it, then buy another 4ac,, whck the same turbo setup on it, thrash the balls off,,, etc. etc

4ac's are homo, not worth working seriously...

[superbmobile]

whith a 4age in a adm sprinter do you have to get it complied and if i was to get a defect would i have to pull it out to get my car off defect or do they allow the 4age conversion.

[paulie]

i dont think you would have to in SA anyway.. its the same engine capacity..
my mate had a 2.2l in his datto 1600, he regoed that, now it has an SR20DET, he regoed that no worries coz he actually dsropped down in engine size..

[ae71]

depends on what you want to do with the car..?

also they are about 65hp in trandard form, that was 20 odd years ago when it rolled out of the factory.

no you wont be getting anywhere near 85kw with what you have mentioned. im building a budget N/A 4ac and im aiming for about 80hp. thats with full rebuilt bottem end, higher comp pistons, twin sidedrafts, big cam, shaved head, thin copper gasket, porting, valve springs etc.

if you want everyday turn key reliability then put a 32/36 webber on it and save for a 4age. if you havnt alreday, do suspension and brakes while you wait/have fun

[ae71]

with sprinters because they came from the factory, i belive you can just ring up the transport and change the engine number. you may need an engineer to say that the engine has been installed correctly and that it isnt going to fallout etc.

[Dave]

no 4ac and early ge are same engine block, just one is efi with twin cam head.... just change ur engine number and enjoy the 16v goodness DOOOOOOOOOOOOOH :)

[superbmobile]

Do you mean 80hp atw or flywheel because 80 hp is like 58kw which is stock 4ac power.

[superbmobile]

And 65hp is 47kw youre thinking of a 4k man.

[Dave]

at the end of the day u will have a worked 4ac sohc carby car that u have spent the same amount on u culd have used to get a fuel injected twin cam 16 valve engine with champ.... if ur that keen on the 4ac, unbolt the head, whack a gasket in, turbo it and just thrash on 6psi till u have the funds for your 4age, but look around , but 4age bits bit by bit or look thru classifieds, u can find the parts for next to nothing bud

[haado gei]

not worth it. i didnt spend a cent on my 4ac. not even an aftermarket muffler as it will sound ghey whilst being slow.
just do a 4age as you will in standard form make more power than a worked 4ac, you will have more RPM to play with, and most importantly you will have future potential with the 4age. i bought a 100kw smallport, that was how i powered up my 4ac. plus my boat now safely anchored at the yaught club :P

[superbmobile]

Has anyone been defected with a 4age in a adm sprinter.

[roadsailing]

4ACs are designed to drive you around until you save enough to get a 4AGE, then transport the 4AGE to where you will move it from the boot to the engine bay, then move the 4AC from the engine bay to port phillip bay (haha thats a good one, but seriously dont throw it in the water, just hang on to it for entertainment value)

they are a good reliable fuel efficient engine, any money spent on one would be better spent on a 4AGE

[kaibeecee]

Has anyone been defected with a 4age in a adm sprinter.[/b]

no, you're not exceeding capacity, and the engine can come under 'manufacturers optional engine' in most cases

i cant believe anyone even considers touching the 4ac to keep it for anything but thrashing the hell shit out of it. save yourself the headache, just go 4age, not as pricey as you would expect once it's going

besides, you'd only end up doing it once youre sick of the 4ac anyway, get it out of the way now

i don't even know why i replied to this

[freeman]

Why bother doing this? Your budget is what? $1000 at most right?

4AGE engine - $400
pay some one to put it in - $400
misc stuff - $100

and there u go.

or u can do it yourself (not hard)

could probably get away with it for 500$

[stefan]

has anyone been done for turbo 4age? in sa

[superbmobile]

if anyone can get me a 4age for 400 i will buy it.

[roadsailing]

i'll take 4

freeman, have you actually bought an engine for that?

a mate and me got one for 200 once, but in was at pickapart and had a billion Ks on it, then we had to pay more for the ECU and loom.

and to give you an idea, my conversion probably ended up costing close to 2 grand, engine was about half that.

1.5k is a sensible price, but doing anything to a 4AC is anything but sensible.

[seek]

Why bother doing this? Your budget is what? $1000 at most right?

4AGE engine - $400
pay some one to put it in - $400
misc stuff - $100

and there u go.

or u can do it yourself (not hard)

could probably get away with it for 500$[/b]

lol what condition 4AGE do you think you will get for $400.... i highly doubt that will include the ecu and loom.

pay someone to put it in will most likely be closer to the $1000 mark

misc stuff for $100... does that include the fuel pump? fuel hoses? new piping, new oil new coolant, new belts (you would be stupid not to replace them whilst engine is out)

[superbmobile]

exactly freeman if there ever was a 4age for $400 it would be gone in seconds and also my mate raced a 4age sprinter just today he has a 4ac with a cam, exhaust and shave it was even all the way up to 120ks then the 4age pulled away but still not by much 4ac is not that bad.

[roadsailing]

exactly freeman if there ever was a 4age for $400 it would be gone in seconds and also my mate raced a 4age sprinter just today he has a 4ac with a cam, exhaust and shave it was even all the way up to 120ks then the 4age pulled away but still not by much 4ac is not that bad.[/b]

blah blah, drag races are the worst comparison ever unless the car is designed for drag racing and is being driven by someone who is driving to drag race.

short story, 4ACs are not worth spending money on, and 4AGEs are. this is because 4ACs suck and 4AGEs are cool.

you can argue the point all you want, but it doesnt make you any more right.

go ahead and do it if you want, but you will just be "being different"

[seek]

4ACs suck and 4AGEs are cool[/b]


i love your logic :S

yes ill agree that it is not viable to enhance a 4AC.

[Konakid]

The 4ac is not a bad motor, (drive a 4k then drive a 4ac) its just not a performance motor.

It does well for its designed purpose in a basic slide car. Its reliable, makes its power in the midrange, doesn't mind revving and is stupidly tough. I actually rate it highly for these reasons.

All ive done to mine is new plugs and points, a fresh air filter and 2 inch exhaust so it revs better. Leave it at that then thrash it.I have thought about going weber etc, etc, but its just not worth it, its not a performance engine, nor will it ever perform like one.

As much as your try you can't polish a turd, although i would love to see an N/A 4ac build, just because its the almighty underdog!

There has already been a huge thread on the ol 4ac here.

4AC Tuningzzz (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forum/index.php?showtopic=5880&hl=little+more)

[freeman]

http://www.kyp.com.au/index2.htm

From $400, so that means probably a bit more, but i would certainly not pay $1500 for one, that is just stupid. You can get a CA18DET for less than a grand these days, i got one for $400 just needed a new head gasket... So why would you pay 1500 for a 1.6 NA motor? I can easily get a silvertop 20v for $900

$500-700 for labor is all you should be paying, i have had engine conversions on silvias DE -> DET done for $400 labor... so maybe more for a 4ac -> 4ag conversion then... But get a backyarder to do it and it should be around 500-700.. Its not that hard. I could do it in less than a day...

Factor in belts ~$20, oil $30, coolant $20, plugs $5 for copper ones, piping $20

DIY and you could have a 4age car for around that $700 you want to spend on a 4AC.

Man, this is reminding me of the old CA vs SR debates.

[haado gei]

So why would you pay 1500 for a 1.6 NA motor? I can easily get a silvertop 20v for $900[/b]
buy all the parts needed and then convert the 20v to run rwd. the cost is high.

to do the 4age 16v conversion properly budget a minimum of 2k.

[freeman]

i just mentioned the 20v as an example.

[mikewestphoto]

that $400 4age is just a bare long motor. 1500 will get you a rwd package including box, loom and ecu.

[Hen is a total nutcase]

Superb - You originally asked a question about whether it was worth doing work to a 4AC. Since then whenever anyone has answered "No" you have argued with them claiming it is. You have made your mind up. Why ask the question?

Anyone can do whatever they like with their 4AC, most people think it isn't worth it, but you can have some fun if you want. Just do it and quit arguing about it.

Hen

[ae71]

Konakid wait for mine, it will be mad sick...


hen for a nutcase you make a fairly good point.

im going to do a simerla build, ive done research and YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET THAT MUCH POWER from such small mods.

i know of a 3k that had thousands spend on it and it made about 135hp at the fly (the same money on a 4ag would be forumla adlantic spec). that just proves that you can turn a shit motor into something mad. with my build im being realistic in saying that im not expecting it to make billions of HP because it wont. what it will be is a fun revvy motor capable of reviing to about 7500 fairly reliably. it isnt a extrame build, but $$ spend in key areas will make it a resonably low buget while still being reliable and making some good numbers.

[superbmobile]

The 4ac is not a bad motor, (drive a 4k then drive a 4ac) its just not a performance motor.

It does well for its designed purpose in a basic slide car. Its reliable, makes its power in the midrange, doesn't mind revving and is stupidly tough. I actually rate it highly for these reasons.

All ive done to mine is new plugs and points, a fresh air filter and 2 inch exhaust so it revs better. Leave it at that then thrash it.I have thought about going weber etc, etc, but its just not worth it, its not a performance engine, nor will it ever perform like one.

As much as your try you can't polish a turd, although i would love to see an N/A 4ac build, just because its the almighty underdog!

There has already been a huge thread on the ol 4ac here.

4AC Tuningzzz (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forum/index.php?showtopic=5880&hl=little+more)[/b]
Thankyou you actually realise that 4ac is not that bad on the last corolla cruise in SA everyone pretty much had 4ac motors and there was some impressive stuff done that day.

[haado gei]

do a 7ac lol :o

[driftism]

yes... i want to make a 7ac.

[haado gei]

if i had an ae71 as a spare car i would make a 7ac and do good carb and shit. :)
unless a 4age was cheaper... which it proerly is lol...

[driftism]

keeping the motor carby would most certainly be cheaper, only thing would be sorting out a timing belt, and water system to work correctly

[Konakid]

7ac, we (4age - 86) were talking about this a few months back, would be interesting

[Driftspec]

The 4ac is not a bad motor, (drive a 4k then drive a 4ac) its just not a performance motor.[/b]

Couldn't agree more. Its efficient, simple and tough. Like most things Toyota.

Run it on 98 Octane, get new spark plugs and leads, put a different muffler on, and have fun with it! With its low compression ratio it will take an absolute flogging. Makes plenty of mid-range torque which helps for sliding :)

For a stock car, upgrade your suspension first, it is the best money you will spend. Keep the engine running well, flog it, and save up for an engine transplant with LSD upgrade. That seems to be the general things to do with Sprinters. Unfortunately, the 4AC was only put in the ADM Sprinter because it was a cheap reliable unit. Its for that reason they generally aren't done up, rather upgraded to something bigger and better. :)

And 4ACs sound awesome with a good muffler on them, no roar but a nice throaty tune.

[paulie]

And 4ACs sound awesome with a good muffler on them, no roar but a nice throaty tune.
[/quote]


so does an e15 pulsar motor.. and many volkswagons and alfas..

[Dillon Mac]

Last I heard, the engine capacity couldnt go further than 20% off the factory engine used in it otherwise.. Defection.. Not sure though

[superbmobile]

Ive made up my mind I bought a 32/36 weber today and the head and cam are booked in for friday all up it will cost me $500 including vrs kit, ive been told it will give me about 18 extra kw im happy.

[haado gei]

i look at it from this view. why have a highly strung low power engine with no further potention when you can put in a stock engine that makes more power (than the tuned 4ac) and has plenty of future potential.
i am in no way having a go at you, i admire your ability to persist with the 4a-c in fact.
keep us updated with how it turns out.

[superbmobile]

I understand what everyone is saying and i would love to have a 4age but i have seen some pretty quick 4ac's doing some pretty impressive stuff like 4th gear burnouts, in about a year i will consider 4age turbo but for now im looking foward to the worked 4ac.

[dr1ft-pig]

And 4ACs sound awesome with a good muffler on them, no roar but a nice throaty tune.[/b]


thenewkid84's 4ac sound fucking sweet as, best sounding 4ac ever, gets revved to 7k everyday and it begs for more, rivaled my half fucked 4age

[haado gei]

at the start of this year my 4ac sprinter accelerated as fast as a fucked 4age. lol i was highly impressed.
that motor saw 7k EVERY day that i owned it and never died. everyday i driven it it saw 7k and above hahaha.

[Driftspec]

so does an e15 pulsar motor.. and many volkswagons and alfas..[/b]

Dude, that isn't even relevant. Over.


superbmobile, let us know how you get on. I'm curious to see what gains you get overall, such as how far it revs, power over the rev range etc.

I admire what you are doing, good luck with us and keep us posted :2thumbs:

[Konakid]

Will want to see Dyno sheets broooo, interested, 4ac <3 :rolleyes:

[superbmobile]

i will let you know when im done.

[Konakid]

One more thing

www.Club4ac.com

[Driftspec]

One more thing

www.Club4ac.com[/b]

Oh you are kidding me...

Well looks like I've found something to do tomorrow night :)

[RobertoX]

4ac + turbo = win