16v quad throttles or twin carbs?

[benzo]

Alright I'm looking for opinions on quad throttle bodies from an ae101 or twin carbs fitted to 16v 4age

In terms of set-up, performance and driveability what can you guys tell me? I would guess that the carbs would be easier to set-up while itb's would give better driveability. No idea on performance

And no it will not be a daily, pretty much something i can out to the track and go hillsy's a few times a week..

positives and negatives of both would be sweet

Cheers, Ben.

[all torque]

Carbs could give perfectly fine driveability, so long as they are properly matched to the engine, and set up correctly.

As I understand it, you need a pretty built N/A setup to reap any real performance benefits from ITBs. That said, I would imagine they give better throttle response no matter what.

[benzo]

yeah i mean quad throttles would be smoother to drive

will be running stock bottom end, trd 0.5mm head gasket, big cams, ported and polished head

you say you would need a worked engine to get any benifits from itb's, but then couldnt that also be said about twin carbs?

[all torque]

you say you would need a worked engine to get any benifits from itb's, but then couldnt that also be said about twin carbs?

Well the usual 40mm Dello'ortos that people put on their 4AGE's, came standard on a whole bunch of Alfa Romeo's. 1.8 and 2.0 liter Alfetta's for example, which are nothing remarkable performance-wise.

But I guess with those engine mods, you're talking about bigger carbs. In which case, the short answer would be yes.

Personally I'd go for the ITB's.

[benzo]

Hmm yeah thats what I was leaning towards

how do people go about fitting quads from 20 valves to their 16valves?

Cheers, Ben.

[Axentrik]

In short You need an adaptor manifold. T3 (techno toy tuning) do one. And a programmable ecu obviously.

[Vance]

carbs. do it

[benzo]

lol but why carbs over itb's

what are these twin carbs like on 4ages?

I had a weber on my old worked 4k KE20 and it would not idle at morning or night, was an absolute pig until warm

I'm liking the idea of quads atm, just because it retains efi and that to me spells reliabilty and decent driveability.

carbs do seem so much cooler though

Sway me:))

[Konakid]

Go EFI

doesnt go out of tune
starts easy, everytime
has cold start to warm the motor up
can easily remap to suit future upgrades
possibly cheaper?

[benzo]

thats what I mean about staying efi

webers require tuning etc all the time and run like pigs when cold

possibly cheaper sounds good too haha i just wanna skid

Cheers, Ben.

[stanzzza]

Go EFI

doesnt go out of tune
starts easy, everytime
has cold start to warm the motor up
can easily remap to suit future upgrades
possibly cheaper?

Carbs dont go out of tune
My car starts, everytime first time
Not all ecu's have cold start, mircotech and etc hasnt.
Can easly re jet to tune for upgrades, under 10mins all the jets can be changed.
The cost of the Aftermarket ecu alone is more then a good carb set up.:shocked:

[stylz]

wanna sell yours or swap for all efi gear plus cash stanza? :P

[fatke]

ive got twin 40mm webers on my 4age runs awesome loud induction and good power

[blinded]

I have twin 40s on a mild 5K. Runs sweet as, starts first go and runs fine. Only has a lower idle when the motor is "really" cold, but apart from that it is great. Drive-ability is not an issue with them, as I use mine as a daily no problems. Carbs will cost still a fair amount of money to jet properly as each particular engine of different. If you run dellortos (most DHLAs) they will be a little harder/more expensive to set up as opposed to Webers for engines <1800cc due to a fixed size with the air bleeds in the idle circuit. This is easy enoguh to fix, but will cost a bit more money. In short, no carbs will not be cheaper to set up unless you know someone to do them for you, or can do them yourself.

Dont let this swing your decision but....Carb induction rules!

[4A-GE Power]

Carbs tromp ITBs on a mild 4AGE. I've got Mikuni 44's on my 4AG and it runs smooth as. People who tell you they go out of tune just say that because they heard everyone else say it, 99% of the time they have never tried carbs. However there is more involved than simply bolting a set of Webers or Dellortos onto a 4AG, not so much with Mikunis.

Firstly Alfa, Lancia etc had emulsion tubes sepcially created from factory for their own engines and also many of these carbs have got weird progression drillings suited the the original motors which makes tuning a nightmare. The best option is to buy off the shelf carbs, whether it be brand new or used.

The best option of the lot is just to buy Mikuni PHH40 or 44's, for the simple reason that the japs took and italian design and made it 100 times simpler and better.

[fatke]

its tru ppl allways tell me go efi u get more power out of it bullshit if u tune them right and u have the correct setup u will munch and efi. my car starts up straight away but i have n an idling issue due to my rediculously big cams lol got sum bigger idler jets but yeh carbs the way to go

[shift_rook]

carbs do out of tune in time, quads are sick though, also newer technology, cheaper and with aftermarket comp you'd make some great power out of the engine with em

[blinded]

My take on carbs and ITBs is this:

Carbs only have one jetting. (well 2 including idle till ~1500rpm) So on a small little revvy 4age, obviously jets will need to be big enough to maintain a good fuel flow as not to lean out in higher revs. So, in low revs, once off the idle circuit, it will be a little bit sluggish as the mixture will be a little bit richer, but come 3500-4000 it takes off. From there, performance wise they will be essentially the same as ITBs as twins on a 4cylinder engine is that, a throttle for each cylinder, each with its own mixture. That being said, it is still no problem at all with daily town driving. Maybe you might have a small over-fuelling problem if you have some ridiculous cams but I doubt that.

Though, with ITBs I guess being injected, means that you have the ecu controlling fuel to the cylinder through out the entire rev range. So, leaner mixture to compensate for low revs, but then once opened up, can richen up to cope for higher revs.

I could be wrong, but if anyone else can add info, go for it :)

[jy086]

Very helpful thread. i just brought myself a set of ITB's for smallport...i can't wait to put it on. Anyone has 101 quads on smallport can share their thoughts? thanks

[nichy]

is there not a tech thread on ae101 ITB's to 4age 16v?

i can't find one :(

[fatke]

carbs carbs carbs

[Hen may possibly be a nut]

These sort of threads are about as informative as a Ford vs Holden argument. Everyone has their opinions and states them as if they are indisputible fact.

They both work, they both can be good, they both can be expensive (check retail price on a pair of new 45mm Webers). Make your own decisions.

Hen

[4A-GE Power]

These sort of threads are about as informative as a Ford vs Holden argument. Everyone has their opinions and states them as if they are indisputible fact.

They both work, they both can be good, they both can be expensive (check retail price on a pair of new 45mm Webers). Make your own decisions.

Hen

Nuf said

[marvis]

Anymore discussion on this?

[lolwat]

last post ..2009???

[marvis]

Well aware.

[slydar]

mikuni RS is where its at. the price you pay, for what youre getting..im strongly considring them fo my "2nd stage" with the coupe.

that or the OE type bike carbs if youre a tinkerer (maybe slightly more suited to a 20v)

the limiting factor is always the ignition set up. if you're confident you have a handle on that the tuning of the above set ups isnt all that hard once you have a read. you basically are only alterting one jet. (4,one in each carb) and here are decent guidelines to the point that you should be able to get the to run pretty well just using the suggstions people have made.

there is always the argument of "oh but it will run rich in the mid range".. seriously though, how spot on are most peoples 20v's? most run pretty rich on part throttle etc as well.

[Hen may possibly be a nut]

... the tuning of the above set ups isnt all that hard once you have a read. you basically are only alterting one jet. (4,one in each carb)...
...there is always the argument of "oh but it will run rich in the mid range"...
Agreed about the ease of tuning. While I haven't tuned a 4AG on carbs, I've tuned a few single cylinder motorbikes with a wideband recently and that is so simple that even I can work it out. I don't think it would be fundamentally any different when you've got four of them fitted. Though you should be able to tune out any midrange problems too by changing needle height and get good AFRs through the entire rev and throttle range.

Hen

[McLEVIN]

This thread may have persueded me to do a carb set up eventually.

[John70]

I think we should all put turbos on hahaha
That way you can piss on those Datsun Skylines

[sundee]

mikuni RS carbs... ive been looking at these for the last month... at the moment im about to start tinkering with twin 40mm mikuni side drafts on a 2TGEU, should be interesting, i do like carbs though!

[AIROCOBRA]

I have a 16v 4age ae86 hillclinb car with jubride ITB kit ( about 100 RWDKW ) SOUNDS GREAT ( always run with window down ) . THE ONLY TIME i HAVE TRIGGERED NOISE METERES AT A TRACK WAS INDUCTION NOISE NOT EXHAUST.
Having said that ( and being a old fart ) I love webers. Am building a road AE86 that will run twin 40mm webers. Can't what to get on the road.