Building your own road car from scratch

[Blood Child]

i am led to understand that with certain qualifications and knowledge under one's belt, one can go about building a road registerable vehicle from scratch.
assuming that such a vehicle would have to apply to the relevant ADR standards, what qualifications would one need to acquire in order to begin such a project?

i see a number of custom and kit car manufacturers about, so i would imagine this to be a relatively attainable goal.

just curious as to my options
- whether i would be able to build my own chassis or if i'd be required to use one from a production vehicle
- what paperwork would be involved
- who i need to see/speak with to get it approved for road use etc.

cheers

[puzzigully]

for awhile I was part of a group making a westfield clubman. for some reason they are exempt from crash testing (I think because the general desgn has been tested before) however if they have all the stuff a car needs FUnny thing is they need window wipers even though they dont have a roof) they are perfectly road regoable. brilliant little cars too, 600kg+20v silvertop..

oh and you need to get tyre placards, a plate that says your not allowed to carry young kids ect. find an engineer and have a gander.

better yet get onto the Westfield club and ask them.

[Blood Child]

i was looking for something that i can build on more of a 'pay as you go' basis. ie. buy parts as i build it.

primarily interested in building something completely original rather than putting my personal touch on some kit car.

[puzzigully]

yeah Id say your up shit creek with getting it regod then.

BTW have you looked into actually building one? even buying a clubman frame and fiberglass body still requires HEAPS of custom work and mucking around, even using existing car parts (cortina diff, cortina steering rack, cortina brakes, transit fan front end parts, KE30 steering colum...)

[Konakid]

What about panels!! :o

[fixeruperer]

you need to be an engineer (cant remember wich one, the same as the guy that engineers your car) if your not one you need one to check everything you do.
if you use a chassis from another car the adrs are based one that chassis, but still an engineer is needed.

speak to an engineer they are god.

[Blood Child]

indeed. i have looked into it in the past, and i can't really justify that much mucking around just to come up with something that still isn't really original.

what i had in mind was something more attractive like the 'eureka' kit car, but entirely of my own design.

[fixeruperer]

honestly its way to much fucking around, its something you have to be way commited to do.
its like drawing the perfect picture in your head it looks orsum..how it comes out if it does is shit :)

[Blood Child]

lol you're quite right there. i've had that issue on all too many projects, but surely the inner workings of such a vehicle need not be pretty?
as far as the shell and other 'pretty' bits go i understand that i would need professional help, but surely everything under that merely needs to be strong, safe and functional?

[Blood Child]

i might drop in and have a chat with this guy sometime soon, as he's just down the road from me: http://www.skelta.com.au

[AsleepAtTheWheel]

I've had plenty of experience with these cars - I own a Silvertop 20V Clubman that was scratch built. Although I haven't built one from scratch myself because I'm not confident in my welding abilities, it is possible to attain ADR's etc for a full custom job - you just need to be prepared to fork out the $'s and the massive amount of time it will take for engineering. Be prepared for lots and lots of setbacks and runarounds from Qld Transport - especially if you want to road-register it, and get in contact with a one of the Clubman builders groups. There is a forum and a few other message boards around that deal with Australian builds.

You also have to comply with emissions ADR's as well which limits your engine choice (4age's are no longer eligible - you need to go something like a Ford Duratec/Mazda Zetec engine which is built to the standards :P ). As far as I can remember, the only thing that they don't have to comply to is side-impact ADR's (which comes in handy when you're sliding toward a tree :blink: ) and they have a plate that states that.

You can build them perfectly on a pay-as-you-go basis. Trust me, unless you're welding together chassis full-time, there is no way you'll be able to put an engineerable frame together in your spare time in less than around 6 - 12 months. You'll have plenty of time to hoard parts, trade them, buy and sell as you want. Remember you have to buy and cut the steel, build the chassis jigs, weld the bits together, check, check and check again - and then you've got to have some form of engineered CAD plan to start with, with all your clearances, mounting positions, tolerances etc worked out. Then you can start thinking about suspension geometry/setup - and the physics involved in ALL OF IT... still sound like a good idea?? :D

Body panels would have to be fibreglass, unless you know a really good metalworker/coachbuilder. Try to incorporate as many flat panels (or close to flat) as possible because then you can use thin gauge sheet ally which you can bend around corners etc also.

If you go down to Skelta and talk to Ray (Vandersee) or any of his guys, he'll probably be able to point you in the right direction and give you some idea what you're up against but be prepared to be shocked :lol: If you're still up for it - go banana's, but we'll all want to see updates!

[ae71]

i intend on building a simerlar thing, im aiming for 500kg's.

it would be a track car only. i would be using a ca18det becuase they are still resonably compact yet make more than enough power to be extreamly fast in a very light car. i would also be using more of a silvia suspension setup. im not sure if a hilux diff or an irs setup. pannles would be minimal, just around the cabin, and a front scoop to direct air to the cooler/radiator.

it would be nice to register such a beast but it would as have been stated it would cost too much to build one from scratch or register, hell building one like this is still going to cost 15-20k with a dirty old ca!

[AsleepAtTheWheel]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ae71 @ Nov 1 2007, 10:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=429379)</div>
i intend on building a simerlar thing, im aiming for 500kg's.

it would be a track car only. i would be using a ca18det becuase they are still resonably compact yet make more than enough power to be extreamly fast in a very light car. i would also be using more of a silvia suspension setup. im not sure if a hilux diff or an irs setup. pannles would be minimal, just around the cabin, and a front scoop to direct air to the cooler/radiator.

it would be nice to register such a beast but it would as have been stated it would cost too much to build one from scratch or register, hell building one like this is still going to cost 15-20k with a dirty old ca![/b]

If you're building a track-only special, you have to make sure that you're eligible for a class (e.g. Marque Sports), then read and understand the regulations pertaining to the class otherwise you'll find yourself doing lap shootouts for time only. I don't know quite what your "track" aspirations are aiming for, but stuff like motorkhanas would be more suitable to what you're describing. Again, regulations become the bottom line. I'd hate for you to spend a year building a car only to have nowhere to compete. :blink:

When it comes to setup, research is your best friend. A silvia suspension setup will not work in the front end of anything like this mainly due to the large size of the struts and the arms etc. plus you've got to maintain the angles of the original chassis setup. I'd say that you'd have to have custom arms and use short-stroke GAZ style coilovers, this way allowing your chassis engineering (force distribution etc) to determine your suspension setup.

When it comes to rear end, a hilux diff is wack - just way too heavy, and you've got bugger all weight to move when it comes to launching so blowing a diff is not going to happen too easily. Lightness is your friend and there are heaps of lighter beam axle options (escorts are commonly used among others) and you can get plenty of tough parts for the internals easily plus to keep it cheap you've got to keep in mind your brake options. IRS is not a bad thing, but it all depends on your preference. I've seen a number of different setups including beam-axles, watts linkages, DeDion rear ends, IRS but there are none with a clear advantage over the rest. Reseach (again), drive some different setups and make your decision. If you go IRS, you can use any of the Nissan options - especially if you buy a CA Silvia as your donor car.

Also, you don't want a CA with it's tits tuned off turning out a fully hektik 300rwkw to power it. It will not only be a death machine, but it will be undriveable. In the case of these cars, there is such a thing as too much power - you can only use so much before the limits of adhesion/gravity/anything else are reached. Then you'll just be pissed off that guys in less powerful cars are lapping faster than you just because they've got better power-down and drive out of corners... :P

[ae71]

I agree with you,

As there are no real racing series in Tasmania I'm not doing it to compete in any class, mainly time attack and fun.

as i said i was considering and its going to be a long while before any construction begins. the reason that im thinking of a ca18 is they are obviously quite a bit cheaper than a sr and the idea is to get a reasonably cheap motors that makes ok power as is so that only light tuning to help keep it reliable and responsive. being the simerlar weight to the clubman but with more power really, i was told that it actually lacked a little in power. i was considering using a complete silvia front end, including x-member and lca's. I'll be completely honest and say i do not know much about silvia setups and this is part of the research that has to go into it before i get out the gas axe. also choosing the silvia stuff because sr brakes should be enough due to the car weighing just 2/5 of a Silvia. ill also have a lot of track and a shorter wheel base which should make it quite stable threw corners. it will of coarse have the centre of gravity as low as possible so i think it should turn quite well. one thing is i probaly want to see if i can mount the motor back further than on a factory cross member because this will end up with too much weight over the front wheels compared to it being in a car with more weight all around.

rear end, there are plenty of options, i do want something thats capable of exepting an lsd, dont want anything too aggrow in a light car or it will understeer/oversteer too much. it will come down to practicality availability and if im able to actually do it all myself. a beam rear would obviously be the easiest option maybe even being able to combine it with rear coilovers. one advantage of IRS is the ability to add a little rear camber. I think IRS maybe a little heavery though. maybe a r31 borgwaner with factory lsd (nice and loose) maybe an option, also has disk brakes as std. i think that apart from the camber adjustment IRS is even less necessary on a smooth track surface, i think you would need it for rally/offroad.

as i said quite a while off yet, have no room to undertake another project or money to do so.

[driftke70]

my dad recently finished building a lotus 7 replica with a black top sr20det and 6 speed and full torsion rear end and 2 way out of an s15, goes fricken hard as, crazy as when you slide it cause its like pendulum and swings you around. Handles magic.

Harder than you think to do, he built it from scratch by himself and took him about 2 years.