Aicron gas - what do you use?

[turbo_rolla]

Hey guys, recently got my ke70 aircon lines redone after my 4age conversion. Pretty happy with how its all come up, except that the temp isnt really too cool, even in the cooler weather. Pretty sure they used r134A, so was thinking a different gas might help it chill a bit better? Anyone recommend something you run in yours or know of that'll keep the chill? Thanks!

[SLO-030]

R134a is the only gas that is used now days

I would say you have a leak or they didn't put the right amount of gas in the system. If they did it correctly they would have used a dye to show up leaks.

Take it back to the place that did the re-gas and tell them its not cooling properly. It should only take them a few minutes to find a leak if there is any.

The laws have changed in the last 12months so they will only repair it then refill it again. They wont just top it up unless they can't find any leaks.

[callum1]

whats air-con?

[hatzo]

Air conditioning ....
You know turn on A/c cold air comes out.

[turbo_rolla]

Cool, thanks craig. It was done at "natrad" in town, and they were pretty good. THey said it'd struggle when it was stationary on hotter days until i get a new thermo for the condensor and shroud, but even on mid 20's it wasnt that great. There was an issue with the wiring too (well, so they thought - got it back and they said it wasnt quite working - had gone on then died off, but found the a/c amplifier had a RPM cutoff switch on it). Will take it back into them though and get them to check it out. Pretty sure they ran dye through it though. Thanks!

[turbo_rolla]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hatzo @ Nov 10 2007, 02:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=434565)</div>
Air conditioning ....
You know turn on A/c cold air comes out.[/b]Hmmmmmm, recirculated air! :2thumbs:

[dr1ft-pig]

throw some LPG in it... dead serious it will be soo cold u will get frost bite :lol: but on another note id go r134a and get a small charge of LPG in it just to give it an extra "boost"

[SLO-030]

No one will put LPG in it. Simply because of a crash or alike it will cause an explose or fire!!

[SLO-030]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (turbo_rolla @ Nov 10 2007, 04:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=434617)</div>
Cool, thanks craig. It was done at "natrad" in town, and they were pretty good. THey said it'd struggle when it was stationary on hotter days until i get a new thermo for the condensor and shroud, but even on mid 20's it wasnt that great. There was an issue with the wiring too (well, so they thought - got it back and they said it wasnt quite working - had gone on then died off, but found the a/c amplifier had a RPM cutoff switch on it). Will take it back into them though and get them to check it out. Pretty sure they ran dye through it though. Thanks![/b]


Yeah im not sure how i wired it up. I don't remember hooking the a/c up to the ecu to bring in the idle up.

[turbo_rolla]

Nah, we didnt end up hooking the a/c amplifier up with the ECU. I checked it out and there was a dial on the side of the actual a/c amplifier itself, so i wound that down as low as it'd go so it doesnt kick the a/c off until about 500rpm now. Before that, it'd run it while it was cold, but as soon as idle dropped it was gone.

COnsidered LPG, but like craig said, you dont want that in there if you have a crash etc. However, having said that, people drive around with massive tanks of the shit in their boots, so a small amount in an a/c system might not be tooooo bad. Have heard about its cooling potential before though! :2thumbs:

[r3zzz4]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Craig_AE86 @ Nov 10 2007, 05:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=434633)</div>
No one will put LPG in it. Simply because of a crash or alike it will cause an explose or fire!![/b]

Bullshit!!!

Im an air-con mechanic, there isn't enough lpg in the system to cause anything (100-200g), plus because it is under pressure if it escapes it is freezing cold anyway (-40 or colder) therefore wont ignite easily in the first few seconds of the crash.

They have proven it doesn't explode in crash tests aswell, thats why VIC can use it.

R134a and LPG don't mix dr1ft-pig, thats gonna cause an explosion :(

[dr1ft-pig]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheNewKid84 @ Nov 10 2007, 07:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=434670)</div>
R134a and LPG don't mix dr1ft-pig, thats gonna cause an explosion :([/b]

they will do what i tell em to do :P

[SLO-030]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheNewKid84 @ Nov 10 2007, 06:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=434670)</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Craig_AE86 @ Nov 10 2007, 05:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=434633)
No one will put LPG in it. Simply because of a crash or alike it will cause an explose or fire!![/b]

Bullshit!!!

Im an air-con mechanic, there isn't enough lpg in the system to cause anything (100-200g), plus because it is under pressure if it escapes it is freezing cold anyway (-40 or colder) therefore wont ignite easily in the first few seconds of the crash.

They have proven it doesn't explode in crash tests aswell, thats why VIC can use it.

R134a and LPG don't mix dr1ft-pig, thats gonna cause an explosion :(
[/b][/quote]

My bad. Im in the processes of getting my a/c licence now and nothing has been said about it nor have i heard about it before. I have been dealing with a/c systems since i started my apprenticeship 4 years ago.

[r3zzz4]

They use to have LPG licences about 10 years ago, the guy that taught me still had one, they are void now however.

Britain are using Propane in all ther fridges now, and a few fridges are being sold here using propane for refrigerant aswell.

It's the way of the future, no ozone or greenhouse crap, and it works twice as good as R134a and doesn't produce as much heat which saves radiators in cars... WIN!!!

[turbo_rolla]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
Im an air-con mechanic, there isn't enough lpg in the system to cause anything (100-200g), plus because it is under pressure if it escapes it is freezing cold anyway (-40 or colder) therefore wont ignite easily in the first few seconds of the crash.[/b]Suits me fine, think i'll enquire into somewhere/someone who can do this for me. Will no doubt be a backyard job, so will see what i can find. If anyone has any suggestions (in adelaide) let me know via pm. Will still take ti back to the guys who did it originally just to make sure there arent any problems ;)

[DRFTPG]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheNewKid84 @ Nov 10 2007, 10:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=434717)</div>
They use to have LPG licences about 10 years ago, the guy that taught me still had one, they are void now however.

Britain are using Propane in all ther fridges now, and a few fridges are being sold here using propane for refrigerant aswell.

It's the way of the future, no ozone or greenhouse crap, and it works twice as good as R134a and doesn't produce as much heat which saves radiators in cars... WIN!!![/b]

i dunno if i would trust you dodgy lismore kents :P haha jks jks :lol:

[r3zzz4]

Yeah SON57A, guess you have a point... haha , luckily I know what IM doing....

nah i ran lpg in my old ae86's air-con system

it was so cold I couldn't leave my feet in the footwell because they started hurting and there was little bits of ice coming out.

Only problem was that the orings that seal all the pipes were perished and it leaked out every week so I didn't bother.

If you know a frigey, and your gasing up an old car, chances are the service ports are standard schraiders and he can just hook up his gauges to the lines directly, like ae86's, which means you just need a hot fitting for your LPG gas bottle.

The hard part is charging it, you have to do it by feel, there are no pressure temperature charts for LPG so that would be the only concern, make sure someone is in the car to tell you when it starts getting cold.

As a guess i think it ran around 200Kpa @ 1200-1400 RPM, but I can't be certain. It was a while ago that I did my car and my old works limo, but I know that the head pressure seems too low, disregard that and just charge until the person in the car says its getting cold, that will give you a ballpark figure anyway.

Oh and because t is such a thin substance, it leaks VERY easily, so redo all the seals in your flexible lines and joints for the refrigerant circuit or you will be topping it up weekly like I had to.

remember the pipes will stink of LPG afterwards i.e. your air-con guy will know if you put it in for a service...

That is the end of the lesson kids

DO NOT TRY THIS IF YOU ARE NOT LICENCED AT REFRIGERATION

I didn't do 3 years at tafe for nothing, and even then I only know from someone who had been licenced for it before.

[howee]

Fridgys FTW!!!!

I'm first year, 2 months into yesterday.

And New kid your too smart for this :P

Everyone listen to him, he is right. And get a fridgy out to do it.. or go to a guy who re-gasses them.

Good luck

howee

[r3zzz4]

Howee FTMFW!!!

Welcome to the light young Padawan....

[turbo_rolla]

Cool, thanks for all that info newkid :2thumbs: Will take it back to the place that did it now that its actually working, and see what they say. Hopefully they can give me a couple more options! Thanks again ;)

[JDMJNKY]

i regassed a jdm 86 4ag with all the factory air con still in a1 condition just degassed when the car was bought into the country. The guy had the standard jdm 4ag fan and no fan shroud. with r134a i found to have the high side pressures much higher than they should be id say because no fan shroud and not enough airflow through the condensor the air con was only cool not cold. i dont know much about lpg but there are people that do it and it is more for the older cars with poor condensors wich work less effective with r134a ans they were origionaly charged with r12 which is no longer available!

[turbo_rolla]

yeah, im thinking that i might get a new fan for the condensor and make up a shroud and see if that changes anything. I've got a 12" on the radiator, but that wouldn't draw through enough air for both. Only thing really putting me off LPG is that i'd have to get into the system and change all the o-rings etc. Plus i've got no sense of smell, so wouldn't be able to tell if it were ever leaking :crazy: i think there might be some newer version of R12 called "R12A" or something available (someone wanna correct me?) and i asked the guys who gassed it about it, but they said they dont use it because of the "explosion" chances etc :wtf: but another place i'd gone to said that's what they'd recommend using. Will get the fan and shroud done, then see what its like, and then take it to a couple of places and get some opinions

[r3zzz4]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (orangechargd86 @ Nov 11 2007, 02:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=434968)</div>
i regassed a jdm 86 4ag with all the factory air con still in a1 condition just degassed when the car was bought into the country. The guy had the standard jdm 4ag fan and no fan shroud. with r134a i found to have the high side pressures much higher than they should be id say because no fan shroud and not enough airflow through the condensor the air con was only cool not cold. i dont know much about lpg but there are people that do it and it is more for the older cars with poor condensors wich work less effective with r134a ans they were origionaly charged with r12 which is no longer available![/b]

Did you put the system under a vacuum before charging it with R134a?

If not , then that is why it didn't work, air and refrigeration go together like shit and a sandwich...

[r3zzz4]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (turbo_rolla @ Nov 11 2007, 04:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=435013)</div>
i think there might be some newer version of R12 called "R12A" or something available (someone wanna correct me?)[/b]

That'd be R409a my friend, good stuff too (y)

[turbo_rolla]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheNewKid84 @ Nov 11 2007, 03:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=435023)</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (turbo_rolla @ Nov 11 2007, 04:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=435013)
i think there might be some newer version of R12 called "R12A" or something available (someone wanna correct me?)[/b]

That'd be R409a my friend, good stuff too (y)
[/b][/quote]Would you recommend going down that path then? And is it a gas that most places would use/have access to? If so, that might be the way to go. Would prefer to use one thats supposed to be used for aircon rather than LPG if i dont have to :)

[JDMJNKY]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheNewKid84 @ Nov 11 2007, 03:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=435021)</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (orangechargd86 @ Nov 11 2007, 02:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=434968)
i regassed a jdm 86 4ag with all the factory air con still in a1 condition just degassed when the car was bought into the country. The guy had the standard jdm 4ag fan and no fan shroud. with r134a i found to have the high side pressures much higher than they should be id say because no fan shroud and not enough airflow through the condensor the air con was only cool not cold. i dont know much about lpg but there are people that do it and it is more for the older cars with poor condensors wich work less effective with r134a ans they were origionaly charged with r12 which is no longer available![/b]

Did you put the system under a vacuum before charging it with R134a?

If not , then that is why it didn't work, air and refrigeration go together like shit and a sandwich...
[/b][/quote]

yeah mate i did i have my air con licence. have you gassed an 86 with r134a and found it to work as well and efficiently as when they had r12??
i have an 86 with r12 in it still works awesome!

[r3zzz4]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (turbo_rolla @ Nov 11 2007, 05:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=435036)</div>
Would you recommend going down that path then? And is it a gas that most places would use/have access to? If so, that might be the way to go. Would prefer to use one thats supposed to be used for aircon rather than LPG if i dont have to :)[/b]

It's up to you, R409a isn't a gas most auto air-con guys will stock, it will be a little dearer than R134a but theoreticaly it will work better than R134a in a existing R12 system

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
yeah mate i did i have my air con licence. have you gassed an 86 with r134a and found it to work as well and efficiently as when they had r12??
i have an 86 with r12 in it still works awesome![/b]

Another frigey! there everywhere!! Good stuff

Actually I havent, i've only done the LPG trick on my old ae86

I can see that the compression ratio in the R12 compressor would probably be a problem, R134a is a denser gas so that'd probably explain it, LPG is super light thats why it runs a cooler head pressure/temperature.

Crazy that you still have one charged with R12, it should have leaked through the flexible lines ages ago lol

[JDMJNKY]

im a panelbeater just have my air con license so i can handle regassing and recovery.
i rekon ill just go for lpg when i regas my turbz 86. any things you have to do different for lpg?? rec drier?

[turbo_rolla]

my old system (when i had the 4k) was running R12 and it was heaps better than it was now (still not heaps cold and struggled a little on heaps hot days, but definately cooler)! That's why i'd be keen to get something with the similar "properties" of that. Most people i talk to say the R134A stuff is good for, and designed for the newer cars, but that doesnt help us! You up for possibly doing a regas for me orangecharged? :rolleyes:

[JDMJNKY]

nar mate i dont have the regas unit at my new work and could only do r134a for you anyway. there is a place that i know of that definately does do lpg and know what they are doing in adelaide not sure what the place is called but it was a mechanic joint and they specialised in jaguars!!

[turbo_rolla]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
nar mate i dont have the regas unit at my new work and could only do r134a for you anyway. there is a place that i know of that definately does do lpg and know what they are doing in adelaide not sure what the place is called but it was a mechanic joint and they specialised in jaguars!![/b]No problems mate. Think i know the place you're talking about though (soverign jags or something?). Will make a few calls and see what i can find! Thanks!

[r3zzz4]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (orangechargd86 @ Nov 11 2007, 09:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=435192)</div>
im a panelbeater just have my air con license so i can handle regassing and recovery.
i rekon ill just go for lpg when i regas my turbz 86. any things you have to do different for lpg?? rec drier?[/b]

Believe it or not, you have to put foil tape over the sight-glass on the drier because light seperates the lpg and turns it into a pretty volatile piece of gear... don't ask why but i've seen it happen.

Apart from that its just redoing the seals that is the major concern because it escapes so easy.

If you can find a guy doing LPG, I highly recommend it. Your air-con will be crankin afterwards :2thumbs: