rear coilovers

[350hp4agte]

hey guys i no its probably been asked b4 but just wanna no what trouble, or why people dont use rear coilovers that often or as much as conventional set ups on ae86's

[riojin]

use search. its been covered many times

[Jason]

A: Heaps of people do it so it should be fin/ pros do it so i can do it too

B: As soon as you hit a bump it will punch through.

I think it would be a wise option to reinforce the attachment point, because after all it is very thin, even if it didn't punch though, some peace of mind would be nice, as well as less flex.

[Javal]

Sorry if this sounds like i'm talking down to some of you, but i want spell this out very clearly.

There is alot of debate over the use of Coil-over-shock style suspension on the rear of an xE7x / AE68.

This is because the only place to 'mount' the coil-overs (and this mounting point is used in 'bolt on' coil-over kits) is the factory Shock absorber mount.

Now, the reason this is bad is because instead of spreading the load between the spring perch and shock mount, you move all the load onto the shock mounts. Let it be said that the spring perch generally takes more of the load, and at the body end of the deal, it is somewhat stronger than the shock mount.

And therin lies the debate.

Some people are hellbent on preaching that you shouldn't run coil-overs in the rear of an xE7x / AE68, and that because the shock mount to the body is so weak and is taking much more load than normal, that failure is immanent.

Those who support the use of coil-overs in the rear generally have little more than the 'my mate's AE86 has run rear coil-overs for the past 2 years no probs' story to support their argument. This is not demeaning them, this is just my observation.

But, to put all the here-say aside, why do people want to run rear coil-overs in the first place?

The they don't give any advantages over your normal separated shock / spring setups performance-wise. NONE.
There is no reason that your 8 way adjustable coilovers are any better than an 8 way adjustable shock and spring of the same rate.

There are only 4 Reasons ANYBODY would EVER want coilovers, and these are what it boils down to:

1 ) They are quicker to remove (OH so slightly) than a conventional shock / spring (on an xE7x / AE68 at least)

2 ) Some brands offer adjustable ride height, which is good for some.

3 ) In most cases, the springs will remain fully captive (not in all cases, thanks for pointing that out David.)

4 ) Now this is the main one. Wank factor.

Seriously, it's awesome when you can tell the boys that your car now has Coilovers all round. But they will give you no notable performance advantage over a conventional separate shock / spring arrangement.

Buy them if you want. A good shock / spring combo will outlast it and generally be cheaper.

I'd recommend bracing the shock to body mounts just for piece of mind if you do.

Javal.

[350hp4agte]

cheers javal

[Javal]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (350hp4agte @ Nov 19 2007, 06:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=439193)</div>
cheers javal[/b]

No probs, it's fun to have an informative rant sometimes.

[kaibeecee]

standard setup is superior in everyway, height/spring adjustability excepted. provided you use respected parts, not chinese made bullshit.

[Felix]

mitch, i have coilovers in the rear of my ke

you can cruise over here and check them out one of these weekends, or once i can drive again (3 weeks) i'll come over to yours

I've had the diff mounts re-inforced and have had no drama's what so ever

I mostly did it cause i picked them up for the same price as a good shock and spring setup and was keen on the height adjustability (works wonders)

[Monk]

Alot of people will talk shit about rear coil overs, Like javal just did.
But in his defence, he is correct in saying that theres no need to go coilover setup unless you wanna be heigh adjustable.

I run coil overs all round, and when I snap a mount or physically see some one else snap amount.
Then Ill back up Javals claims.

But untill then ill put it down to another one of those 'i read on a US forum that a guy snapped his therefore all coilovers in the rear are bad'


my 2 cents

*hugs javal* :)

[Gilly]

KE70 and AE86 are different in one area and that is a reinforced area the 86 has that the 70 doesn't. it is like a spring perch and my old coilovers used this to retain the spring therefore did not place the force on the shock mount.

i still believe they can be run IN AN AE86 without reinforcement BUT ONLY IN THIS MANNER

i'll get pics

[Javal]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monk @ Nov 19 2007, 10:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=439342)</div>
Alot of people will talk shit about rear coil overs, Like javal just did.
But in his defence, he is correct in saying that theres no need to go coilover setup unless you wanna be heigh adjustable.

I run coil overs all round, and when I snap a mount or physically see some one else snap amount.
Then Ill back up Javals claims.

But untill then ill put it down to another one of those 'i read on a US forum that a guy snapped his therefore all coilovers in the rear are bad'


my 2 cents

*hugs javal* :)[/b]

Naaawwwwwh. Wub joo too.

Tis good to hear you're not having any trouble with it.

There is alot of 'i read on a US forum that a guy snapped his therefore all coilovers in the rear are bad' and 'my bro's mates uncles cousins has had coilovers in the rear of his car for 11ty years and has had no problems' So i thought i'd cut the shit out of it for once.

My main gripe with rear coilovers is heaps of people buy the D2, G4 Racing, shit that shaggs out within the year just because it's 'Cheaper' than a decent shock / spring package (such as AJPS?). Not in the long term, uleh.

Javal.

[verm69]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Javal @ Nov 19 2007, 10:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=439349)</div>
Tis good to hear you're not having any trouble with it.[/b]

his car isn't running... YET

don't flame me monkey boy! :wub:

i don't have any input as I've never run or known anyone who has run coilovers in the back successfully, but it's a very controversial subject, and there are alot of people on both sides of the fence... it's been covered eleventy two times before... search :2thumbs:

[Bustin_86]

Also another advantage which hasnt been covered ( i dont think? ) is the ability to run a lower car with more stroke in the suspension. Rather than cutting the spring or running a .lower free height you can move the whole mounting down.

Thats pretty much the only reason im going coilover.

Reinforcement is ridiculously easy to do and is definately reccomended for peace of mind.

[RobertoX]

Javal rear coilovers arent necessarily captive either, also bustin please use a trd blue or something and make your rear coilover up on that, seriously, you know why

[kaibeecee]

cause T3 are shit?

as said, better to make them yourself - sleeve kits are cheap, and a calculator, small amount of intelligence and a pair of verniers are even cheaper. and the whole works better.

i'd rather put my safety in my own hands than someone i've never met grub screwing my shit together.

if it breaks, then i'll kick my own nuts

[RobertoX]

the agx t3 use in their rear coilover are shit

not the company

[blair]

*token noob question(s)*

how do i go about reinforcing my shock mounts??

and whats this special thing gilly speaks of??

:)

[Bustin_86]

Box in the bottom mount and plate the top mount.

Couple of hours with a welder and its mint.

No idea what Gilly is talking about, look forward to hearing it though.

Edit- Slightly more detailed explanation, basically you would box and plate (box the bottom and plate the top) to provide more rigidity to the mounts and to allow the force that is created from combining the suspension compnents to be distributed over a wider reinforced area. Imaging hitting a piece of sheet metal with a hammer and a punch, then imaging hitting the same piece of sheet metal with a hammer and a dolly. The force is evenly distributed and if done correctly will have no adverse affect to the mounting surface outside of normal happenings. Just my understanding from research and discussion anyway :).

[Javal]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeRm69 @ Nov 20 2007, 10:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=439479)</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Javal @ Nov 19 2007, 10:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=439349)
Tis good to hear you're not having any trouble with it.[/b]

his car isn't running... YET

don't flame me monkey boy! :wub:
[/b][/quote]

Noted. And i'm not THAT Hairy. that prize goes to JHS.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (truenosedan @ Nov 20 2007, 10:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=439492)</div>
Javal rear coilovers arent necessarily captive either, also bustin please use a trd blue or something and make your rear coilover up on that, seriously, you know why[/b]

Thankyou for pointing that one out, didn't pop to mind.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bustin_86 @ Nov 20 2007, 10:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=439483)</div>
Also another advantage which hasn't been covered ( i don't think? ) is the ability to run a lower car with more stroke in the suspension. Rather than cutting the spring or running a .lower free height you can move the whole mounting down.[/b]

Bustin, after a reading that, i wouldn't say it is possible to run MORE stroke than a conventional setup (after all, stroke is only limited by the distance between the body and diff mounts), and if you were going to 'move the whole mounting down', you would achieve the same thing with a conventional setup with the modified shock mount.

More TRAVEL is possible by using Coil-overs with a re-located mount, however since Coil-Overs (rear ones especially) tend to use rather tightly wound coils (to compensate for smaller diameter spring / slightly thinner material, they reach their maximum compression (bind point) sooner than conventional rear springs, thus negating any gains in travel that could possibly be had.

[verm69]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Javal @ Nov 20 2007, 10:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=439510)</div>
Noted. And i'm not THAT Hairy. that prize goes to JHS.[/b]


:lol: he is pretty hairy! but i was calling monk "monkey boy" ;)

[Javal]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeRm69 @ Nov 20 2007, 02:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=439572)</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Javal @ Nov 20 2007, 10:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=439510)
Noted. And i'm not THAT Hairy. that prize goes to JHS.[/b]


:lol: he is pretty hairy! but i was calling monk "monkey boy" ;)
[/b][/quote]

Now i get you ;)

A more appropriate word for JHS would be 'Gorilla' i think?

Wub joo cwis.

[verm69]

hahahaha!

I see what joo did thar

[hachirusto]

Ive been looking at doing this as well and I will probably do it when I find a suitable rear coilover setup, Bill sherwood had a set out of a starlet in his with nothing modified or reinforced and has said that he has had no problems yet with them. So until i see someone post up a picture witha coilover unit popping out of the rear strut mount or a bottom strut mount completely snapped then there is proof to back up the "internet" claims

[Bustin_86]

For the extra peace of mind and the hour it would take me with a welder, i wouldn't hesitate to reinforce them.

[Javal]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bustin_86 @ Nov 21 2007, 08:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=440035)</div>
For the extra peace of mind and the hour it would take me with a welder, i wouldn't hesitate to reinforce them.[/b]

Agreed, people have run them without reinforcing, some run them with.

You have nothing to lose and rigidity / strength to gain by doing so.