s13 front end conversion

[scott_22]

in a ke70. what do people think of it? is it worth it? i can get parts real cheap. what do i need?

[worked]

you mean the whole crossmember conversion and engine swap or just s13 coilovers and sticking with your existing crossmember and engine???
conversion and engine swap = thumbs up from me, done it, love it handles fine with s13 crossmember, rack, LCAs and coilovers.
s13 coilover conversion = heard bad things when you mix up ae/ke and s13 bits, best to keep it all one make down there i'd say either stick with toyota gear or stick in s13, don't mix and match. only what i've heard tho

[scott_22]

i want decent track and camber. dont want to go sigmas cause i am allergic to Mitsubishi (dont ask). so coronas? will my standard struts bolt straight on to them? and i use 86 powersteering arms? anything else?

[Clinton]

s13 is anything but decent track and camber. its waaaay too much. and it makes it look retarded.

86 struts, xt130 LCAs, camber tops, NRCA will get you camber and track. ps arms are just for lock

[marvis]

I agree with Clition. Add some steering spacers in there and it's a nice setup with 86 coilovers.

marvis.

[scott_22]

awsome thanks guys. thats the path ill take then. you can close this thread now if you want

[ke70dave]

on the contrary i am quite happy with my s13 front suspension

no good if you want crazy go nuts wheels though.

i run s13 LCA's with CA brakes, and 15x7 +23 wheels, with -2 degrees of camber (about what most guys seem to run with their ae86 gear) and that is with the camber tops set to maximum negative

i have enssentially untouched standard early front guards (have bashed the lip up a little) and i dont scrub at all. (tyre is right on the edge of the guard though)

it does look a bit funny with so much track and not that much dish on the wheels. but i belive you can get R31 LCA's and it reduces it a fair bit. but its cheap for what it is ($1200 including rebuilt JIC coilovers) how much are ae86 coilovers again? oh thats right minimum $900 brand new + 300 + for camber tops. oh and you get uber loads of steering lock too. the CA brakes are fantastic too.

[Simon-KE70]

acctually CA brakes arent that much of an upgrade over JDM vented rotors really... you'd best fit some SR brakes (will still clear your wheels) or even go 4 pots with 4 stud rotors, which is what i have and the brakes are amazing.

anyway... another +1 for s13 susp but only if you are running ALL nissan parts. mixing and matching does work well at all.

[ke70dave]

yer i woudlnt be too keen on SR brakes without an uprgaded mastercylinder.

ive only got the stocko one (rebuilt) and its pretty good feel.

CA brakes are 250mm, where as the jap ae86 is 234mm i belive, so bit of an upgrade. but yer its not that big. but neither is my car.

the famous rx7/mini upgrade being 276mm, so about the same amount again.

[Simon-KE70]

bore size in the sr calipers is same as ca caliper i think, both are single piston, so MC upgrade not needed.

[fantapants]

correct about the bore size in the brakes, just the leverage on the swept area is difference.

also, as much as we fart and fluff about differences etc etc really, for the 99 billionths of the time that it works perfectly wel, yes it does tick boxes that are more expensve to sort traditional ways.

If you can afford it, 86 stuff is the shit. if you are on a budget, then yes it is an option that works well and cheaply :)

[scott_22]

fuckkkk....now i am confused.

[fantapants]

meh dont be confused.

traditional 86 toyota stuff IS better. NO argument.

However, you just need to work the trade offs against the advantages. In my case, i felt the advantages ticked enough boxes for me to go to the effort of getting round the differences. Like i said, and this is only my opinion mind :) the advantages probably gain you some benefits on the race track, but for the rest of your natural life, it MIGHT be a suitable option :)

[Simon-KE70]

why is it better?

i dont think its better, shitty heavy struts, small ass wheel bearings which die when you fit big offset rims, crap brakes etc.

sure it can be made to work well.. thats been proven time and time again.

but that doesnt mean that its "better" i think both set ups have their merits, pro's and cons.

its just that people fit the s13 set up to their toyota rack's and crossmembers and expect it to work, when it never will...

[scott_22]

so i need to go sr or ca? i am just useless with wiring. i would love to put a ca18det in it. but like i said wiring and me = fail. what pedal box would i use for a ca?

[Simon-KE70]

well you dont need to at all... work out what engine you want to run. if you plan on staying 4age, then keep the toyota set up... however if u want to go to a nissan motor it pays to do it properly and do the susp and steering as well.

as for peddle box u use ae71 regardless of what motor its running

[fantapants]

sorry more saying that if you have the coin, the trad 86 stuff can work better than a half arsed s13 setup.

as for using crossmember and rack.... well i stuck with toytoa rack and crossmember and found other ways around the issues that work well are easier :)


why is it better?

i dont think its better, shitty heavy struts, small ass wheel bearings which die when you fit big offset rims, crap brakes etc.

sure it can be made to work well.. thats been proven time and time again.

but that doesnt mean that its "better" i think both set ups have their merits, pro's and cons.

its just that people fit the s13 set up to their toyota rack's and crossmembers and expect it to work, when it never will...

[Simon-KE70]

its got nothing to do with how much cash you throw at the 86 susp. its still going to have the same inherent problems.

do tell us about these other ways around the problem that are easier

[fantapants]

my knuckle adaption should help a lot .... outside of the non paralel arms being a problem, wich doesnt acxtually work out to be such a huge problem in the end, what other things should i be looking out for? serious... always looking for me learning :)

[Konakid]

why is it better?

i dont think its better, shitty heavy struts, small ass wheel bearings which die when you fit big offset rims, crap brakes etc.

sure it can be made to work well.. thats been proven time and time again.

but that doesnt mean that its "better" i think both set ups have their merits, pro's and cons.

its just that people fit the s13 set up to their toyota rack's and crossmembers and expect it to work, when it never will...

Heavy struts? What does an s13 coilover weigh compared to an ae86 coilover?

I have never heard of a wheel bearing failing with rims even as aggressive as 8 - 15 (Robo86) which is as far as 99% of people are going to go.

As for crap brakes, what about the FC/Civic rotor/R32 BMC? setup?

Plenty of lock via P/S arms

Im of the belief that the 86 strut has less cons than the s13 setup, that said ive never driven with the s13 setup after reading other ppl's opinions on them i decided to go the 86 route. 86 stuff always seemed to work fine for me with a 4a.

[Simon-KE70]

thats just it, if your running a 4a set up, be it NA or turbo, then stick with the 86 stuff, it can be made to work well

86 strut + FC rotor combo is heavier then a s13 strut + SR brakes, not by much tho.

plenty of wheel bearing failures out there mate, i destroyed several in my old blue 86 running 15X8.5 -15 on the fronts, replaced with new and after some hard track days they were noisy again. compared with s13 hub bearings.. the 86 ones are way undersized.

but yes i like both set ups... i just believe that if you go the SR swap then u may as well do the S13 susp (and crossmember + steering) and have a good all round package. it does drive really well... like a factory car and with no bad behaviours.

[FAST EDDIE]

acctually CA brakes arent that much of an upgrade over JDM vented rotors really... you'd best fit some SR brakes (will still clear your wheels) or even go 4 pots with 4 stud rotors, which is what i have and the brakes are amazing.

anyway... another +1 for s13 susp but only if you are running ALL nissan parts. mixing and matching does work well at all.


cmon simon it does work well just takes a few years to get it all right (see 4 lol) cant say ive driven either a well setup toyota front or nissan only setup. but still get the rods hyper extending in the s13 stuff!!!! never heard that from toyota!!!