Help

[driftke70]

Alright, ive pretty much decided that the only engine I really wanna put in my rolla is a s5 13bt. Ive searched around and cant find squat on it. Just wondering if people could share anything they know on the build etc.

Heres basically what im doing, getting a manual front cut with tail shaft, pulling my 4age out (give us a yell if you want it, whole package with t50 and crap will be for sale).

Making up new mounts for engine and gear box. Custom shaft. (not sure where the gear lever is going to eventuate)

What I want to know
What mounts are the easiest to modify or should i make from scratch,
Would a 4k cross member be better than an 86/71 so i dont have to hack up a good part.
Is the clutch slave on the drivers or passenger side of the gbox.
What series people recommend
Do rotary's benifit from a nice cooler or should i keep the standard top mount (thinking about a v mount setup)
What dimensions on the exhaust, ill be making up a nice stainless one and how loud are they so i know what to do muffler and cannon wise.
If you know anyone trying to get rid of an engine and loom/ecu package or front cut.
What are nice reliable things to do to a rotor to make them happy, ie small boost increase, maybe a little port job. Power fc's etc etc
Should I pull it down and put new seals through it regardless of its condition when i receive it
What clutch for kickin (even though i probably wont need to)

My fuel setup is more than enough to feed it, my diff is capable of holding it, all I really need chassis wise is some width on the rear treads.
Any pictures of a rotor in anything like a sprinter or ke series rollas (doesnt have to be 70 will still help)

Thanks in advance
Beally


p.s do not post anything regarding how much you hate rotors, why you think i shouldnt do it, how your mate had one that blew up, how you jerk off into a sock or anything.

[driftke70]

almost 30 views and noone has anything to add?

[Klutch]

Probably get a better response on ausrotary?

[Gilly]

this is what i understand to be the biggest problems

1. gearbox is quite long
2. primaries foul the rack, will need intricate extractors made to suit (maybe?!?!?)

Ed (slo55) on here started a conversion or planned one at least and i remember these to be sore points. its done a lot in NZ so check out toyspeed.org.nz or garagedori.com and see if you can come up with much out of that.

[jono86]

i dont get why its a bad idea? the primaries would have to be changed to sit the turbo in the right place anyway.
and get linkages made up for the gearbox? i think it would be expensive but worth it.

[xsoarerx]

also before getting into this to far check if this would be possible with the compliance ppl (if its going to be a on road car)

i know that you can only put a 13b in a old mazda 323 rwd legally... the old mazdas and ke70's are much the same size so you might have to go the non turbo path or a 12at.

that being said if you can go ahead with it then try track down some info on the 20b sprinter in japan, i read somewhere that it has the be LHS drive to clear the steering rack.

[machg]

FMIC tend to be fairly universally fitted if chasing horsepower. Series 5 (Turbo II) seems to be the best bet, more hp than series 4, and rightly or wrongly there seem to be some questions over series 6 (and later model) 13BREW reliability. Unless it has been rebuilt recently (ask for receipts) you would be silly not to have it rebuilt, especially as it is going on the track. Find a reputable rotary builder for rebuilds, DON'T just get anyone to put seals in it. Also, Eunos Cosmos came out with a twin turbo 13B (similar to series 6 RX7). Ausrotary has heaps of guys more knowledgable than me and lots of info. Cheers, machg

[Ke70alex]

there is something to do with swapping the front mounts to 12a items to make fitting really easy.... i dont understand what it is but apparently when you see it it all makes sense :2thumbs:

outside that go for it.... the more diversity the better ;)

the MOST important thing for longevity would be a GREAT tune on the best comp you van afford.. this will make or break your ride. its relativley "easy" to tune anything for wide open throttle ie drag racing and you will get gr8 results but for the fun and punishment of drifting and grip, you want a really sophistoicated tune ( much like my spelling <_< )

dont go too small on the turbo either, just accept you will have to keep her above 4grand to be on the boil... just feel good that theboil will go to 9grand and love it :2thumbs:

the second most important thing would definatly be cooling..... keep the fugga COLD... oil coolers BIG radiators and personally id go for a ducks nuts wta cooler from like pwr, one of the barrells. The piping is hella short, the cooling is awsome and consistant and not tooo affected by frontal airflow, something that suffers in drift somewhat.

ps no matter what u think the fuel needs for this gurl will be, put more capacity in there :2thumbs:

13b is def easier - 20b is nigh on impossible without going lhd doesnt really matter TOO much ( generalisation i know) what gen u pic, it would be best to give it a rebuild and tidy up and you will be using a custom turbo anyway ( main point of difference between 4 and 5 was the turbo from memory ) and avoid the twins at all costs. Custom simultaneous twins can be made to work ok, but the twin scrolls are a disaster once you start messing with them :unsure:

should be an awsome peice of gear mate, hope all goes well :)

[Gilly]

12a front plate for better engine mount positioning.

you are in for one hell of a ride Beally. always thought it would be cool but no balls to give it a go :lol: bolt in is about as far as i go technically

[DavisJD]

Don't know a whole lot about rotaries, but have spoken to some people at the track as I've thought about this conversion for some time in the future.

Can't give you any technical know how, however, Rotary's like to keep cool, Big radiators and oil coolers are a must.

A rotary might rev forever, but the higher you rev it, the quicker its going to wear out. Cant remember the exact RPM, but one theory from a guy that has been running an NA 13B for many years on the track is that every 500rpm over Xrpm, you half the life of your Rotary before it's going to need some sort of rebuild. I think X was about 7500.

Porting is definitely the way to go with rotaries, I probably wouldn't go further than a bridge port unless its intended for drag racing though. But if its a street car, some people may not even recommend a bridge port.

And ditch the top mount!

[driftke70]

cheers for the help, it all seems pretty straight forward, just finished putting a ls2 into a suzuki jimny so im fairly familiar with making stuff fit. :S

i know what your saying gilly, i figured ive got the gear, the time (ie im happy working till 6am every night), almost the money (waiting for a bike to sell that im yet to advertise :S) and the images in my head. I have intentions of taking drifting to the next level, im starting to feel that im getting to a point where I could be fairly competitive, of course I dont want to be the guy that you see at the track with the broken car all the time, if i do it I aint fucking around.

I love my 2 strokes, I live and breath 2 stroke motorbikes and it was only a matter of time until that leaked over into my drift obsession.

Regarding cooling I will be running an oil cooler and setting up a v mount, probably squirters onto the intercooler so while im sitting in que i can just pump it on. Will run some el falcon thermos on a custom rad that ill knock up.

Ill probably try and get in touch with these nz boys and get the finer details. I dont like to listen to drag people much cause they tend to think in runs and have a weird ability to rebuild engines with no concern.

Thanks again all info is beaut, Keep it commin!

[ke70dave]

rotaries mount from the front of the engine dont they? i never quite understood how you got around this...

[driftke70]

with a mig?

[maxhag]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ke70dave @ Jan 22 2008, 11:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=473265)</div>
rotaries mount from the front of the engine dont they? i never quite understood how you got around this...[/b]

Only up untill series 5 motors. Series 5 motors onwards have the engine mounts coming from the middle of the engine. the left mount actually bolts onto the outside of the sump! (bit hard to explain)

I have a new, quality custom conversion kit for a series 5 13B turbo motor to go into a AE86 sprinter. It was made so the motor sits in exactally the same place as a 4AGE would, (not upsetting the weight balance of the car)

I was gonna build a 13bT Ae86, but with other commitments, i just cant afford to go on with the project at the moment....

Make me an offer, and I may sell it.
It is a BOLT UP kit that consists of:
- Custom crossmember
- Custom engine mounts
- Custom modified Series 5 13BT sump to suit the crossmember

All made by an engineer...... All has been installed and tested, no problems

I have been thru all the technicals of the conversion and some other points u need to know are:

- You will have to run a HIGH mount turbo manifold
- Cant quite remember, but it's either a RX4 or S4 RX7 gearbox is what you need if staying with a mazda gearbox as the gearstick lines up with the standard sprinter gearstick hole (best fit for AE86)
- You must run appropriate heat shielding for your brake master cyl
- Exhaust is on differant side to a 4AGE, (but same side as the standard 4AC)
- A T Series toyota rear end WILL NOT withstand the power

It's a bit late 2AM, thats all i can give you off the top of my head, feel free to ask me any questions

Regards,

J Riftin

[maxhag]

Also, people than hang shit on Rotors, are morons who dont actually have real first hand experience with them. They are awsome motors that can quite easily produce huge power, compared to the huge $$$ that people spend on piston engines. If you understand the motor, they can be very reliable.....

Go for it mate!

[driftke70]

you have given me much to think about,

pm me regarding what you want for the above and how much of a hurry your in to get rid of it, cause I can knock most of that stuff up myself but if its justifiable

[maxhag]

iam in no hurry to get rid of it, but it's just gonna sit in my shed gathering dust for a few years i guess. (other financial commitments)
I have too many car projects going as well........

But as i said, i will sell it if i get a offer that suits me. Iam not gonna name a price.......

[maxhag]

just remember, Series 1 - 4 13b's all have the mounts at the front of the engine (making it difficult to mount in a AE86)
Series 5 onwards, have mounts in the middle of the motor that stem from underneath....

[slide86]

LHD to fix rack and exhaust problem

[maxhag]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (slide86 @ Jan 23 2008, 02:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=473332)</div>
LHD to fix rack and exhaust problem[/b]

If done right, there is no rack or Zaust problem
RHD is fine.....

[DRFTPG]

i have put some thought into this conversion and i came to the conclusion that a W58 would be the best box to use as they come up in the standard gearshift hole and its easy to get ahold of a 13b to W series box bellhousing, i know pac performance sells them.

As far as seals and that go i would recomend putting new ones in no matter what condition they say the engine is in.

The best most reliable rotarys i have ever seen have had almost as much spent on the ecu and tuning as they have on building the actual engine, take it to mazfix or dyson rotary up on the goldcoast, i have heard good things about their tunes.

The only other thing i could recomend is dont push it, if they say your engine can handle 25psi well stick to 20psi, that way you will have alot more reliability and you will be able to spend more time on the track rather than under the car.

You mentioned keeping the stock top mount, depending how much power you want to push out this is probably not the best option, they dont have very good flow properties and with the price of a small front mount these days you might as well pay a few extra $$ and put it up front, maybe a setup like gilly had when he was going CA18?

[Ke70alex]

also quick thing..... having to rebuild a rotary isnt a massive deal. Once you have had a bit of practice, they can be freshened up very quickly :)

[riojin]

buy a 6 speed for it i say. if youre going 13BT dont skimp

[KE70briskev]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Maxhag @ Jan 23 2008, 01:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=473325)</div>
Also, people than hang shit on Rotors, are morons who dont actually have real first hand experience with them. They are awsome motors that can quite easily produce huge power, compared to the huge $$$ that people spend on piston engines. If you understand the motor, they can be very reliable.....

Go for it mate![/b]


+1

I do agree with this very strongly i use to own a sweet series 5 rx7 with a mild rebuild and it made shit loads of power to the point that it scared the shit out of me sometimes haha but yeah heaps of power for the capacity engine it is and they come with some sweet flames too haha

['Red_Hachi_Box']

Hey man,

ive been looking into rotary engines myself lately and have done some research.. Id love to see you do it, I think the power of a rotary combined with the light weight body of an AE86 will make it a monster! Ive heard a few stories of Rotary powered AE86s making people shit themselves

To help out, this website I found useful for information for upgrading engine parts and includes some information on Rotary rebuilding and maintance

http://www.rotaryengineillustrated.com/home/index.php

Good luck man, Dillon

[aleksau]

You have seen my build on KE70.com.

My setup:

S6 motor, 12A front cover, early sump, S5 box.

You will want to cut off the old toyota mounts off the crossmember.

Weld some plates to the rails for mounts then make brackets between that and the plate on the front cover.

You will have to chop up your firewall/tunnel as you need some height where the tunnel meets the firewall and the shifter on the box sitts higher and further back.

Get 12A front cover for your S5 motor.

You will need an RX4 13B sump as the S5/4 sumps have the mounts under neath them and you will need that room to clear the steering rack.

If you are going turbo you will want 3" exhaust minimum, I'm going 3.5" How much power do you want to make, want turbo are you getting?

Get a PowerFC instead of a microshit.... not sure on availability though? If not a haltech or if you are keen megasquirt.

Gearboxes... call pac up and ask them how much they want for the bellhousings for W58 boxes and find out how much shorter/longer they are incomparison to S5/4 box. that could be a good option.

[maxhag]

i don't know about the ke70, but my AE86 conversion kit does NOT require ANY cutting of firewall or trans tunnell...... Although, you need to make the gearbox shifter hole bigger by around 6cm if using the gearbox i talked about earlier (pretty sure it was an rX4 box)
You also don't need to put the 12A front cover on etc......


My kit was designed and made by an engineer (Daniel Rose) who was doing it for his OWN car, therefore it's well thought out, no corners cut and meets a high standard...