brake master cylinders

[dr1ft-pig]

hi all, i have a leaking master cylinder and i want to upgrade to a r32/r33 master

now my question is do i need the ABS or non ABS

the abs has 2 outlets so it looks like it will suit

non abs will have 3 yeah?

correct me if I'm wrong but i think i need to use the ABS type

thank you in advance

P.S. if anyone has the right r32 master to suit my hachi let me know as I'm looking to buy

cheers again :2thumbs:

[Jonny Rochester]

I don't know the "correct" answer, but I'm sure you could use either. As long as the outlets are not going to be too close to anything else. If there are too many outlets, block one off.

Obviosly you need to use your brain, and know its a duel master with the front for the front brakes etc.

[dr1ft-pig]

so blocking one would be an option yeah??? i thought that might fuck brake balance up or something

the abs one has 2 outlets so I'm thinking thats the one ill go with

cheers for the quik reply man

[Jonny Rochester]

Well, its a duel master cylinder. Not a tripple. So the third must be to have 2 rears, or 2 fronts. So you could block one off. Also remember that Nissan masters have bleed nipples in them also, do don't get that mixed up for a outlet.

[Robo86]

i saw a non abs r32 one used on an aussie ae86, tight fit but good

[Fozz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gilly @ Jul 30 2006, 07:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=249115)</div>
[attachment=5301:attachment]
need to upgrade to a 15/16ths master cylinder, you can use S13, R32,33 or 34 abs masters (abs masters only have 2 ports) you will have to change solid brake lines to suit this master. bleed it all throw some rims on using nissan wheel nuts as the thread is different to toyota, and drop it. set your heights (if adjustable height coilovers are used) and get a wheel alignment.[/b]

this what u need right

its in tech articles

[riojin]

ive only ever seen the non-abs ones used. i read a couple of articles on this and remember something about how the abs ones couldnt be used. either that or the booster of the abs ones cannot be used.

I'm pretty sure Jonny Rochester is right and one of those outlets you counted is a bleeder.

this is the kind of upgrade you only really need if youre going to run BIG brakes. the RA60 brakes youre running are practically the same as JDM ae86 brakes so unless those are going to be upgraded too i wouldn't really bother.

i also wouldn't bother upgrading higher than what you got unless youre pushing more than 130-140rwkw

[dr1ft-pig]

I'm upgrading to s13 gear

so can i use a s13 master and just block off a port??

[Jonny Rochester]

Basically you want the front section of the master to be pumping brake fluid out to the front brakes, and the back cavity of brake fluid pumping fluid to the back brakes. Any extra outlets can be blocked off if you retain the front brake T junction on the chassis rail.

[dr1ft-pig]

sweet so i can just use any s13,r32,r33

very good, thanks for the info guys

[dr1ft-pig]

the nissan master is an upgrade

i have spent mass amounts on my car and don't want to start skimping out on shit now

[ae86 drifter]

180sx,silva,and r32 are the same.non abs is both twin and triple outlets,difference with this is due to year models.just ment that two outlets went to the front and one to the back. so get urself a twin outlet non abs one

[Jonny Rochester]

The Nissan master cylinder is not an upgrade. It is made of similar materials and is of similar quality (not as good obviously), and of a similar design and does the same function.

But we are changing only the piston bore size. The selection of bore size is not an upgrade, its a option. The bore size is selected in proportion to the front brake piston size (not the size of the brake disks).

[dr1ft-pig]

how hard r the twin outlet to find???

[ae86 drifter]

peice of piss

[kaibeecee]

theres a few options

any non-ABS 3 outlet MC is ok, if you go S14, you'll get onboard proportioning as well for the rear. i run this, its a worthy addition

but yeah, you want a 3 outlet MC, one outlet for either side front calipers, one for rear diff, as it has a splitter on it.

[dr1ft-pig]

so does that mean i block one front outlet off???

or do i have to change entire brake lines to suit??

[dustyae86]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (improved86 @ Feb 6 2008, 07:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=481173)</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jonny Rochester @ Feb 5 2008, 10:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=481071)
Basically you want the front section of the master to be pumping brake fluid out to the front brakes, and the back cavity of brake fluid pumping fluid to the back brakes. Any extra outlets can be blocked off if you retain the front brake T junction on the chassis rail.[/b]

what happens to the internal bias valve if you increase the rear line pressure by blocking it off ?
[/b][/quote]

don't know adam car to share?? I'm planning on using an S13 and piss off the distribution block and just have rear out let to the T piece for rears and left and right to left and right

[Benno]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (improved86 @ Feb 6 2008, 06:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=481173)</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jonny Rochester @ Feb 5 2008, 10:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=481071)
Basically you want the front section of the master to be pumping brake fluid out to the front brakes, and the back cavity of brake fluid pumping fluid to the back brakes. Any extra outlets can be blocked off if you retain the front brake T junction on the chassis rail.[/b]

what happens to the internal bias valve if you increase the rear line pressure by blocking it off ?
[/b][/quote]

Nothing, cos you're not increasing the rear line pressure, you're only blocking off a spare outlet for the front, still useing front chamber for front brakes and rear chamber for rear brakes.

[Hen is a total nutcase]

Adam, stop being a grumpy old man. Either enlighten us with your point or keep quiet.

I use a 3 port master. Two ports are for the front, each one is connected directly to a front caliper. The third is for the rear, which runs, suprisingly, to the rear and splits on the diff. I have pissed off the factory splitter/bias block on the driver's strut tower.

You can use a two port master and just run the lines to the factory splitter/bias block. Exactly as the factory AE86 master is setup.

You can also use a 3 port and plug one, making it a two port.

Is there anything that isn't clear there?

Hen

[dr1ft-pig]

thank you for the clear answer hen

i will be buying a 2 port or 3 if i can't find 2 port s13 r32 r33 master

according to this thread they will all work


MYTH BUSTED haha

cheers heaps guys

[Benno]

that's why most peole gut the standard bias valve on the firewall and use the internal one on the s13 master cylinder. simple!!!

[dr1ft-pig]

how do you gut it???

[Benno]

well gut it or replace it with a joiner.

you can remove the internals of the bias valve

[deleta]

Ok well this is what I run, a S13 NON ABS one, it has 3 ports, front port is front left brake, middle port is front right brake and the back one is rear. Ive been using this like I just described, for ages and never had a problem. So that is what I would recommend.

[dustyae86]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (deleta @ Feb 7 2008, 07:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=481784)</div>
Ok well this is what I run, a S13 NON ABS one, it has 3 ports, front port is front left brake, middle port is front right brake and the back one is rear. Ive been using this like I just described, for ages and never had a problem. So that is what I would recommend.[/b]

might be worthwhile with all this talk of different master cylinders etc.. saying what brake set up you are running too

[sly1300]

ive got a keto
I'm running s13 front brakes/stock ke70rear.

I'm still using stock ke70 master and booster.
works fine. no dramas as yet.

why change master/booster unless u have to?

[dr1ft-pig]

I'm running disk rear end and will be going to s13 gear very soon (few weeks) and also my master cylinder is fukt

so may as well upgrade to the master that runs all wheels disk brakes standard and runs bigger brakes than an 86 which i will soon have on my 86

in my eyes its well worthy as theres alot of nissan drivers round here and i can source the parts easy

and as i said before it is the master that runs the brakes ill be using standard

[Benno]

Improved86:well most people with large(nissan) front discs and calipers, would already have rear disc brakes. If you don't then the whole idea of changing the master cylinder is stupid.

I run nissan brakes all-round thus the reason why swapping to a s13 master cylinder, to bring the M/C size to caliper piston size ratio back to somthing abit more useful.

(off topic but)
why do you join into topics just to shit-can everybodies ideas? if you know so much about cars then please, don't just winge about everything...enlighten us!!!

Sly1300: it's all down to pesonal preferance, CA brakes are alright but for me, SR calipers are just too spongey under a stock master cylinder, and as soon as you go rear discs, you're going to have to change mastercylinder to keep up with the high pressures dics require to operate compared to drums. s13 are plaentiful and share the same bolt pattern, so it's an easy change

[dr1ft-pig]

s13 suspension??? its a good upgrade, u get track, camber hieight adjstment, damper adjustment (providing u get good coilovers) and bigger range of brakes whether it be ca,sr or even redrill r33 rotors to fit as caliper is a straight bolt in

lots of advantages, just coz its oldskool doesnt mean people can't do it, some people are just seeing the light and finding out about this conversion

[Jonny Rochester]

To everyone: go and buy a Silvia... :lol:

Some little known facts:
1. The fluid pressure from the rear of the master (for the rear brakes), is exactly the same as the fluid pressure in the front brakes. (Rear brake fluid pressure is reduced with the pressure limiting valve).

2. The brake "bias valve" does not dirrectly compare front and rear brake pressures. It is simply a pressure limiting device in the rear brake line only. This can be either on the firewall or gaurd, or part of the master cylinder. Some service manuals provide a graph of how this works, master pressure vs rear brake pressure. The device uses a spring and some seals. If you gut this out, you will have full master cylinder pressure to the rear brakes.

3. If you increase the bore diameter of the master cylinder from 13/16" to something bigger, you actualy decrease the fluid pressure. P = F/A (But increase displaced fluid volume).

[Benno]

shit you must be an IPRA boy, you've got the "I build racecars, I know everything" attitude down pat.

[Benno]

1. what you're refering to is a diagonal split system, and you're miles off on your explanation
2. there is nothing for pressure to act on so there is no change in pressure, and the extra few Mills of brake fluid will do stuff all to the amount of compression
3. P does equal F/A cos nobody said shit about changing the pedal, lever point or booster.

[dr1ft-pig]

if you ave seen any s13 conversions you will jknow it increses track a hell of a lot just as much if not mor than putting in sigma control arms

[ke70dave]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (improved86 @ Feb 7 2008, 10:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=482290)</div>
man every conversion picture was done by myself and maybe 20 more , i think i know the measurements of the LCA[/b]
i dunno what your getting at mate, but an s13 setup (note not specifically the lca, the whole setup) gives a crapload more track.

i know this cause i have it in my car...

and my 15x7 +23 rims sit right on the edge of the guard, and would sit out of the guard if it wasnt for the few degress of negative camber.

man you obviosly know your stuff, how about being a bit more polite? and not treating the rest of use like idiots?

if you continue with the attitude you have, you wont be welcome here by many...

[Jonny Rochester]

I am glad that all of us now know as much as each other. Success!

[dustyae86]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Benno @ Feb 8 2008, 08:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=482367)</div>
google and toolmods.... ha you're a funny bastard aren't you. Why the grudge against toymods? didn't you fit in with all the other Know-all, teenage keyboard jokeys? I only edit cos my grammar is shit and sometime doesn't make sense and i don't need to worry, I've got more mechanical aptitude in my little pinky then you will ever have.

So, apart from arguing over your "stupid cut and paste theories and formulas". Either R32 M/C will work.

I'm out now cos you are starting to frustrate me and the only thing i am succeeding in doing is bring myself down to your level of stupidity.

BTW i was right wasn't I? you are an IPRA boy aren't you?[/b]

Not trying to side with anyone, but if you were to ever see adam's car you would be dumbfounded about the amount of work thats has gone into it, sure he gives most people the shit's, but once you speak to him and actually take on board what he is saying it will help a great deal... HE DOES KNOW HIS SHIT and isn't a keyboard warrior at all.... jsut doesn't appreciate dumb asses :lol:

[Benno]

I'm sure adam knows a fair bit about cars and i don't doubt his car either, but how anybody with an attitude like that ever learnt anything is beyond me.
i don't know what it is, does he feel cool when he treats other people like dickheads.

[v7da1]

i was reading this earlier but now it doesnt make anycentz since improvedz post was deleted ????????????????\
anyone no what he said :unsure:

[browneye]

I have been following this thread with interest, but I am now a bit confused...

How about an answer to this please??::

I am about to upgrade to rx7 four spots and jdm, disc rear......

WHAT master cylinder do I use...(15/16, s13 non abs?)

.to correct the brake balance am I best to install a brake bias adjuster??

Thanks in advance...

STRAIGHT ANSWER PLEASE....

[Jonny Rochester]

browneye, I can answer your question. First tell me the brake piston diameter of the Mazda brakes.

[v7da1]

dude i just had a readz again of the post :lol: it looks like you got pwned :rant: deletez so you don't looks like you know less :lol: BrOwNeyez you should wait tillz improvedz answer i thinkz

[dr1ft-pig]

i just bought a non abs s13 master cylinder

just gonna block 1 front port and use original bias block

i will let you know how it goes and maybe write a tech article just so people can see it first hand and not have to ask questions like i have done

thanks for the answers


P.S. whats the guy above me on??? u need english lessons mate