3s-gte engines

[Tommy_The_Tit]

just wondering are 3s-gte engines simple enough to convert to rwd and are they a good way to go instead of say a sr20 conversion

[fantapants]

man there are like 4 threads currently going on bout these.....

[lo_rolla]

I'd pick a 3s for a few reasons:
I don't like Datsuns
I don't like sr20 heads
Keepin it in the family
from looking, not from experience... 3s internals look better.

But that's just me.

[greeneyes]

<------- The 3SGE seems to be a great motor, even NA...

[Tommy_The_Tit]

yeah think there a bit cheaper anyway, might be getting a crashed gt4 to rob of some parts

[slydar]

its not cheaper than an sr. not even close. you would never do a 3sgte unless you had a lot of hooks up for cheap fab work, as everything is custom.

there are no versions of the engine that are cheap/easy to rwd.

i just posted on HR about this, ill dig it up and post it here.

[slydar]

it is a tricky conversion. while you will have close to double the power of a 20v. it will cost you twice as much. and take a lot longer.



there are basically 3 types of 3sgte.

all of them come from cars with transversely mounted engines. (fwd,4wd,mr)

so in every case, the intake, exhuast, and sump need re working, plus all the plumbing. also distributor/cas placement will need to be looked at.


gen1/2. these are considered somewhat fragile by some. but realistically, the the power they are happy to produce reliably is a lot of power for an ae86. they are also quite cheap. the factory ecu's on most of these engines uses an afm, which is in practical terms is something to avoid. these motors can use 2s rwd (corona) sumps with a few mods. so that part of the equation is comparatively easy.

gen3/3.5 are a lot better motor in every way. the later caldina engines also use coil on plug with a crank trigger. meaning there is no prob with the dizzy at the rear of the head fouling the firewall.

the sump though is much more complex, ive seen the stock one modified, and also BEAMS 3s ones used also. still youre looking at greater expense here compared to the gen1/2.

all 3sgte engines also have a common problem in that the stock flywheel isnt really too handy for rwd. the teeth on the ring gear are beveled the wrong way, and there is no provision for a spigot bearing.

compatible rwd box/bell combos do not position the input shaft close enough to the engine just to put a spigot bearing in the crank, if needs to be in the flywheel.

then you will need a custom intake. probably a custom ex' mani, custom piping too hook up your radiator (and a decent sized one) custom end mounts, custom tail shaft, custom gearbox x member, custom IC piping.

makes an sr very seriously worth considering if youre really thinking you need 2L turbo power.

that said, you dont need 2l turbo power Smile

i wouldnt expect many places to quote you less than 10k drive in drive out.

[slydar]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/8/546969.jpg


theyre nice though.

im doing a gen1 right now. its just a 3sge but i plan to turbo it.

[Tommy_The_Tit]

thats some handy info buddy, the gt4 im buying i was either going to strip it for parts or fix it and sell it but with that info might just do the later and use th emoney for an sr and the rest of the parts i want,[you certinally know want your on about but, might need ya help later]

[greeneyes]

A few of the guys in Altezzaclub have turbo'd their 3SGE Slydar. Should be plenty of advice on there.

http://z4.invisionfree.com/lexusaltezzaclub/index.php?act=idx

[marvis]

They will be beams but?

[rthy]

did they fix the oil pressure problems in the gen3 when converting to rwd?

[driftke70]

probably good to note too that the gen 3 comes from the factory with forged internals and ballanced crank. Good for 500 od hp on standard internals "from what ive heard"

also something to note is the angle they sit on in fwd form, they tilt back in celicas a fair way,

here is some info too.

3S-GTE usage in Toyotas
Generation Year Model
1 1986-1989 Celica ST165
2 1990-1994 Celica ST185(-1993), MR2 SW20 (MR2 Turbo)
3 1994-1999 Celica ST205, MR2 SW20(1995+)
4 1997-2003, 2003-2007 Caldina ST215 (GT-T), ST246 (GT-Four)

gen 1 - 182 hp @ 6000 249Nm @ 3200
gen 2 - 221 hp @ 6000 270 Nm @ 3200
gen 3 - 251 hp @ 6000 305nm @ 4000

[driftke70]

did they fix the oil pressure problems in the gen3 when converting to rwd?

they never really had problems, people just made dodge sumps

[ae85 trueno]

I always thought the Gen 2 and 3 were a fair bit better then the Gen 1 for internal componite strength. The Gen 2 also has the small port head which can be a plus if the head is ported were it makes horsepower without loosing airspeed through the Bigport.

[Anthony]

the beams sump/windage/pickup system is spot on. QR 5th gear proven :) The only real difference between gen 3 and beams is an extra oil drain at the rear of the head. Ive putting a gen 3.5 (ST215 motor) in an 86 upright atm, and I have a beams next to it to copy off so I plan to replicate the oil drain addition. Will get pics along the way and do a tech article.

[driftke70]

you rekon i should?

[slydar]

I always thought the Gen 2 and 3 were a fair bit better then the Gen 1 for internal componite strength. The Gen 2 also has the small port head which can be a plus if the head is ported were it makes horsepower without loosing airspeed through the Bigport.

gen 1 and 2 have the same intake ports, i have a gen2 intake on my gen1.

gen 1 and 2 gte are internally similar, its at gen 3 where it all changes (just about everything)

gen 3 is where the ports change. also have shim under bucket.

gen 1 na is the weakest by far, smaller crank, different crank pcd even. smallest oil pump, ect ect. but i am still confident it can hold together with some boost if i keep the rev cut down, i will probably set it at just over 6500rpm. i am only aiming for 140-160 rwkw. i dont really understand why anyone would want more, maybe i have been driving na 4age ae6s for too long, but that is double the power i would usually have (or close to it).

the oil control problem is a function of sump design. toymodders kill them sometimes when rwd, but then IP guys do not.. IP guys run them NA at BIG rpms..

medwins seems to be going fine and its only a gen2.

[Anthony]

you rekon i should?

ill get some pics and you can decide. im still 50/50

[Tommy_The_Tit]

the 3sgte im getting is out of a 90 model gt4, so is that a gen2 i think checked on autospeed , all the fab work i can do myself i just dont no a hell of alot about converting it to rear ie which gearbox, flywheel, bellhousing, inlet manifold all that shit to use

[Anthony]

yeah its gen 2. all that info is out there. the problem with answering is it leads to more questions. Id rather try and do a tech article perhaps?

[driftke70]

with my gen 3, i have managed to fit in under the bonnet bar one tiny little 20mm bulge with the top mount and standard cooler, standard exhaust and turbo mounting, having the inlet face the rear has actually made me able to move my engine a fair bit furger back,

[ae85 trueno]

I havent seen inside a Gen 1 before so i cant really comment on them but the Gen 2 has a realy well shaped steel crank and some strong looking rods.
Mine also had a steel flywheel with 12mm bolts.Those things make a Big difference to strength.

I also have a Gen 3 head here but chose the Gen 2 for NA.
Small port is usually always better on NA if you can get the flow out of it.
But what i like best about the 3SGE is that its so easy to remove and its a
Very basic engine that workes great and makes good power with the right tweeks

I dont know whether the SR20 turbo engine would be as easy to install and remove.