9AGE discussion

[riojin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
9A
A modified version of the 7a that brings the displacement up to or near 2.0L, done by further increasing the stroke and bore with either a custom crankshaft and/or adapting a 1ZZ or 2ZZ crankshaft using a 81mm 82mm or 83mm bore selection anything past 83mm will require the block to have pressed in liner sleeves. The method to reach 1990cc's is to have a 83mm bore with the 1zzfe 91.5mm stroke, both the 1zzfe and the 7afe crankshafts share the same main journal diameter and have almost identical bore spacing ,2zzge rods are almost perfect rods to used in conjuction with ca18det pistons this is a proven low budget stoker option with very little machine work.[/b]

source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_A_engine#9A)

sounds interesting. anyone have any more infomation?

[biggo]

bah! seems like the hard way to get 2lts

this or 3sge?

*edit* 1/2zzfe and for that matter 2zzge's arnt exactly disposable motors in 2008, you have given me something to search for on the intehwebs

[riojin]

well if you don't mind the difference it will put on the weight balance on your car then a 3sge is the way to go.

i found this

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...20593&st=40 (http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=20593&st=40)

[samuel]

Sounds like a lot of trouble to go through to get a 2 litre xAGE

Would be a bit of a torque monster though

3SGE would be a bit simpler... And probably be made to rev harder and hold together longer at the end of the day?

Intersting technique though

I still think a 22R-E with some form of twincam head, bottom end balancing and a decent huffer would be a winner though ;) God i'd love to do an all CNC billet head

[kaibeecee]

you can see the benefit of using a 7a block, as you wouldn't have any of the mounting issues that a 3s has. just straight in, and mounted

[af300e]

3sge weighs 18 kg more than a 4age. If you move the battery to the rear, it will iron out the weight difference. Also, i believe that 5kg of that 18 is in the huge cast iron alternator mount the 3sge's run.

[slydar]

its an interesting idea i heard about ages ago. but its by no means practical at all.

there was a written off sportivo like over a year ago at eumundi auto wreckers which had the engine damaged, tried to get them to sell me the crank but nothing cam of it.

its just another one of those things you see on the net a bit which is really a u.s based idea, and doesnt really make sense in OZ. kinda like those dunga F20s..

[rthy]

sounds like all bullshit to me, for a start "anything past 83mm will require the block to have pressed in liner sleeves" even 83mm is un-recomended from engine builders and sleeves or not the gap between cylenders would be seriously small.

I want to know has anyone actually ever done this?

[Jonny Rochester]

Just a note: 2ZZ-GE has a different stroke to a 1ZZ-FE.

[ukato]

what my two of my friends had to say about that 9age info

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
ok , but the cylinder spacing is so little there is nothing between the cylinders for the head gasket , so it wouldn't work
there would be 1mm between cylinders at 83bore
81.5 is all you can go on a 4age safely and because you go the cc in stroke 91.5mm it doesnt rev
the 7a is what 89mm stroke
91.5 is a big stroke , you could never rev it so its useless
i bet the 1zz bore spacing is better , so would be better to start with , just you cannot rev them too , due the wrong bucket angle they break the cams out
so stupid idea, yes anything can be done but for the money you could build a 2.4l sr or something else with half the power again[/b]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
I wanted to go oversized pistons on my 7A but standard there is only 6mm between the bores, so if you run even 83mm pistons you are left with a big fat ZERO in between them because you are taking 3mm from one bore and 3mm from the next one. 3 minus 3 = 0 (standard pistons are 80mm).
I wouldn't want to build one of them if I was expecting it to last more than 5 mins.[/b]
So the main argument here is that anything can be done, but is it worth it?

[Anthony]

I wanted to go oversized pistons on my 7A but standard there is only 6mm between the bores, so if you run even 83mm pistons you are left with a big fat ZERO in between them because you are taking 3mm from one bore and 3mm from the next one. 3 minus 3 = 0 (standard pistons are 80mm).
I wouldn't want to build one of them if I was expecting it to last more than 5 mins.

No offence but I wouldn't take too much of what this friend suggests to a machine shop Harley. standard bores are 81mm not 80. and even if they were 80 taking the bore out to 83 only increases the RADIUS (the distance to its neighbour) 1.5mm not 3.

[rthy]

ukato: sounds like a unanimous no...

also I have another bone to pick with this sujestion, they say its a relaively cheap thing to do but apart from the zz parts like biggo wisely noted theres a fair bit of machinigng work to be done here. Putting sleves in is a pretty serious thing to do and has some decents costs involved. You can't just use 4a bit either because the extra displacement would make the compression ratio go through the roof. You would have to use 4agze pistons or something to make it work, and even then you might still need a thick head gasket and thats just a shit option.

[sprintdaddy]

What about an FJ20 or even a Mitsubishi 4g motor.

[rthy]

well there was a guy using a starion bottom end and a evo head in his sprinter, still built last time I heard

[riojin]

well i heard this was done (word of mouth) and more than 140rwkw NA was achieved.

[shorty]

i personally think its more practical mounting wize, but I'm not overly keen on how long it would last :blink:

[slydar]

its pretty simple really bore wise. you can go 83, people have done it, but its pretty stupid when you see what youre left with between 2 and 3.
the only reason you would go to 83mm bore is to facilitate some piston you can buy cheaply, or that suits your rod that suits your stroker crank, as the displacement increase if F all. i wouldn't bother going past standard in bore ever unless i damaged a bore in an engine i couldnt just replace more cheaply.

if you were some how restricted to using the A block but needed more displacement, youd do it, but i can't think of a situation where you would except clubmans where it does make some sense. some people actually race their cars, and have big money in development of heads and close ratio gearboxes ect, and thats the direction they want to go in, to keep making the car faster.

but you would never plan such an engine from the outset, for an 86. say you build such an engine of say 1.8/9 liters, and its a bit of an animal with cams and some decent CR.. that is getting to the point where the t50 IS going to break.. so you will need a gearbox upgrade anyway.

so what have you saved yourself by building this motor? i mean over just putting say a beams in.. a pair of engine mounts? you could probably afford to do the conversion to beams, and buy the welder you need to make the mounts, for less than it would cost to build a 1.8L+ A donk.

[lccccc]

ca18det bro, they got the medicine. 83mm of low compression!!!!