Ideal 20V water temp?

[Vezza]

Hey guys,
working on my cooling setup at the moment with an EWP. I've set the pump to switch on at 80degs which is what the stock thermostat opens at. But not sure what temp to set as a switch off point. I was thinking around 95degs?
Any suggestions?

[Anthony]

usually your switch off point is less than switch on, ideally the temp is going to drop once the pump turns on ;)

Havent had much luck with the controllers, once its close to temp (60 or so) id just let it come on and stay on, other wise they don't seem capable of "catching" the engine temp.

[Gunner]

I usually go for 88 on, 80 off, Usually ends up creepin to the 90 region, but as long as it stays under 95 she'll be right.

[shelldrake]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gunbz-r @ Jul 15 2008, 09:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=561584)</div>
I usually go for 88 on, 80 off, Usually ends up creepin to the 90 region, but as long as it stays under 95 she'll be right.[/b]

My setup at the moment has an ewp and controller - but the controller doesnt seem capable of holding a set temp as good as a traditional thermostat setup. It will be ok in stop start traffic - ranging from 80-90 degrees, but at cruising will sit on 65-70 degrees!

I'm puting in a thermostat now too....

[Gunner]

Have you disabled or taken out the factory pump?

[Vezza]

For my setup, I've completely removed the thermostat and water pump. As for the controller I decided to go with the jaycar temp control kit. 30 bux as opposed to 200 something for the ewp hand controller.

Also, would it be bad if no water is circulating around the engine during warm up with the ewp?

[Gunner]

no water will flow during warm up in any standard engine, it does but not really, not until the thermostat opens.

if you take out the thermostat in a standard engine it will over cool, imo anything under 75 degrees is cool.

For any heat to be removed, the heat needs to be transferred (no tech terms its tooo late) if water is constantly flowing around the engine, 2 things are likely to happen. It will overheat, and you will not know it as the water is cool, and the temp sensor reads the water not the block, or it will over cool, as the water is flowing at a slow enough rate to remove the heat from the block/head, but is flowing constantly.

This is where the davies craig ewp controllers come into their own ( I'm not sure how the jaycar one works) as you can select speed of flow aswell as when it switches on, giving you total control.

In the end it is trial and error, unless your a ewp god and have fitted many a system. The way I would suggest is for you to turn it on at say 80-85 and switch it off at 78, as this doesn't give a very long period for the pump to be on and cooling, but should keep it out of the danger zone 95+

as i said trial and error, but try and keep it in the high 80's if possible, engine like being hot, just not to hot.

[shelldrake]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gunbz-r @ Jul 15 2008, 11:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=562033)</div>
Have you disabled or taken out the factory pump?[/b]

I am running a short belt (so the factory water pump doesnt move), but the water still runs through it.

[Vezza]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gunbz-r @ Jul 16 2008, 11:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=562634)</div>
no water will flow during warm up in any standard engine, it does but not really, not until the thermostat opens.[/b]

But the 4age's have water still circulating around the engine with the thermostat closed, just not through the radiator. I think it's to eliminate any hot spots while the engine is heating up.

Thats why I was wondering if there would be any adverse effects with the water pump completely stopped, cos I think the davies craig controller still pulses slightly to keep the water moving around.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shelldrake @ Jul 16 2008, 11:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=562634)</div>
I am running a short belt (so the factory water pump doesnt move), but the water still runs through it.[/b]

To make it more effective you should really remove the water pump impeller, otherwise it'll be creating a huge restriction on the water flow.

[shelldrake]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vezza @ Jul 18 2008, 09:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=562968)</div>
To make it more effective you should really remove the water pump impeller, otherwise it'll be creating a huge restriction on the water flow.[/b]

It runs cool enough atm! lol. It's one of the configurations davis craig suggest. I will do this after I have put a thermostat in though...

[choom78]

can u guys share pics of ur setup? I'm planning to install one of these shortly. I was thinking in the head-bypass-out to block. Remove the waterpump totally.

[Vezza]

I've set mine up to flow in through the head from where the water pump inlet normally is, and it exits out of the block from the water pump outlet. Which requires the two holes in the back of the head to linked with a blanking plate.

This means there are no messy pipes running around the engine, just two short pipes going straight to the front of the block and head.

[Vezza]

Here some pics of the setup I'm building at the moment.

Front flange uses the original outlet pipe bolted to the milled aluminum flange. Water enters through the bend pipe on the left, which flows through the head first, then exits from the pipe on the right. This way cool water flows across the head and throttles just like the factory setup.
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/174021.jpg

Blanking plate where the original outlet pipe used to be.
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/174022.jpg

Bypass plate which joins the two holes in the back of the head, with all original sensors attached.
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/174023.jpg

Shortened belt to replace original, since it will no longer turn the water pump pulley. It's a DAYCO 5PK0800 belt.
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/174024.jpg

[rthy]

hey thats some pretty creative thinking, well done

[Gunner]

i like that, you should produce some more.

[Vezza]

Thanks guys,
I spent quite a bit of time thinking about how I wanted to setup my cooling system. First, I wanted to retain the original flow with cool water running past the head before the block, and second, I wanted it to be neat with minimum piping.

If all works well once I get the motor running, I wouldn't mind making a few more kits.

[Gunner]

if i could get a kit that neat, i'd go back to a 20v, if you could produce and sell it for $300-400, you'd be on a winner.

[Vezza]

Although the biggest limitation with this setup is no flow for the heater core... but that can be left for version 2.0 lol.

[Gunner]

heater core? whats that?

man you just drive hard enough you warm yourself up.

[Vezza]

lol, true that.

[rthy]

hey I just had a thought, because of the way you have setup the water flow I think your temperature sensors would send the wrong readings. This is because it is reading the temperature of the water before it goes through the main part of the head or the block and so the readings will be tottaly off. I believe you need have the sensors on the water coming out of the block.

[Vezza]

Yeah I was worried about that at the start, but figured it wouldn't make much of a difference. Because normally the thermostat housing has cool water running through it (when open), where as now the water running past the sensors will be marginally hotter after running past the throttles.

Having said that, normally, before the thermostat opens, hot water will recirculate past those sensors....
Hmmm....I'm guessing the thermostat sensor controls the thermofans, what are the other two for?

Edit* As for the engine temp, I'll be using an aftermarket gauge plumbed into the outlet plate.

[rthy]

well the main one you need to worry about is the ecu temperature sensor and to be honest I don't think your engine would run right with it in that position, which is a real pity seeing how nice a job you did making your backing plate and all

[Vezza]

I've double checked the position of the original EFI temp sensor and it's actually placed on the cool side of the flow.
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/175806.jpg

So if anything, I need to mount the sensor on the curve pipe where the cool water enters. But considering the blanking plate is only a short distance from the inlet, I'm hoping it'll all be a-ok.

[rthy]

well it looks like your right and I am wrong, I am sure it will be fine where it is now. It does beg the question though how the hell does it get a measurement when all its getting is a reading on how well the radiator is working?

[Vezza]

That's what I was thinking too.... Hmm, maybe it's actually measuring the temp of the aluminum thermostat block more so than the coolant. Since it's in direct contact with the head it probably acts as a decent heatsink and hence the temp of the head and thermo block may be very much the same....

[choom78]

Here is a theory:

The way the ECU works using 'temp correction', if temp sensor sees 'radiator' water it will simply adjust the correction factor and reduce the amt of fuel accordingly. It will still run a the base map so theoritically it should be more precise because in reality the engine is receiving 'cooler' water. In all other cases, it will be seeing mix of bypass and coolant. Its a dynamic system after all.