Front-end Questions

[Driftspec]

OK, this is a bit of a big one...

I have some issues with the front end of my Sprinter, no less the steering. The car was in for a balance and an alignment a few weeks ago, and was told the right hand side rack end was stuffed. I'd been dreading that day since putting the car into a gutter (without going into details, I hit the left hand side of the car with the gutter (no comment as to how it happened :whistling: ). Its been fine for a long time, it was (roughly) realigned straight away, then was properly aligned and straightened a little later with no issues. After about another year of wear, tear, sometimes hard driving over very rough roads has taken its toll, and not only were they not able to align the front end properly but it feels very whack - its as straight as they can get it, but it drives all over the place.

Now, my question after all that info, is what do I do? Do I grab a replacement rack and or two and fit them, or, considering the damage it has sustained, would it be wise to replace the whole rack, rack ends, boots etc? If so, how much would the parts for that cost? Roughly, or exact, I'm not fussed :) I've got some info from this question (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/board/index.php?showtopic=29920&hl=steering+problem), I'm just hoping that someone might be able to give me some more info on what to do either way.

Which kinda leads into my next question... I have a suspicion that my shocks at the front end are pretty shagged, I get a lot of roll at the front end at any speed, and it doesn't feel as happy turning corners as it did a long time ago (which is related to the steering, I know, but this has been happening for a little while now). Would it be advisable to replace the shocks after getting the steering sorted, if it doesn't fix the problem? Or, as I've been wondering, put up with it and move to a coilover front end? That would improve the handling, lower the front end (which looks rally high when compared to the rear) and be a good overall upgrade.

So yeah, looking for opinions on both there. The steering is more important, I'd like to get that sorted out and very straight as soon as possible, depending on cost. Front end suspension can wait, but I'd still like some opinions in the meantime.

Cheers guys :2thumbs:

[slydar]

the rack will be fine.

start with the consumables.

replace both rack ends, and both tie rod ends. consider whether you want to run a longer control arm at this point too, as this will effect your choice with these parts.

those ones are easy, and should have your steering sorted. these types of things are worth replacing on any freshly bought 2nd hand car, unless theyve obviously been replaced recently.

total cost should be about $100 (2 rack ends, 2 tie rod ends, ive actually never replaced boots, only replace if theyre split)

next is ball joints, and inner lca bushes. you need a press really to do either of these, so maybe hit ajps up as he can supply control arms with new joints fitted.

your front end should really be pretty nice and tight at this point, so there really isnt much to it. cost, ask dave, but it wont be terribly expensive.

next - suspension

shock absorbers are also consumables, but the problem is, standard replacement shocks are really too long to be useful on a lowered sprinter. i would really suggest, that you consider coilovers at this point, so you can take advantage of the use of some short stroke shox in a shortened strut casing. realistically, youre only adding about $300 to go to coilover, as opposed to a lowered spring and standard shock. youll end up with a way better set up, which you can progress with for years to come, rather than having to re do things at a later date.

[driftke70]

rack ends frequently flog out on cars, some more than others, and can greatly affect your wheel alignment,

i did a wheelie on a keto the other day that a buggered rack end, on the wheel aligner the play was causing a change of 7mm. Which will be going out and in as you accelerate and brake.

[Driftspec]

Sunny Coast boys to the rescue!

I was having the discussion with seek about it all too, and gave me a positive outlook on it all, like you did slydar.

My train of thought, is basically to replace the rack end and the tie rods. I'm not going to be running a longer control arm for a long time, if at all, so thats the easy way to go I think. I might look at getting the joints and bushes done a little later down the track.

I'm pretty sure nothing else is bent in the front right, I vaguely remember being told my camber is off but I can't remember much more than that. No doubt I'll find out either way when I get it aligned afterwards :)

As for the suspension, coilovers are sounding good. I'm running KYB lowered inserts at the moment to go with the 8Kg springs, so they aren't standard shocks, but still using the stock strut. If I moved to coilovers, would an RCA still be necessary to reset the front geometry, or would just moving to coilovers take care of it?

[harmsup_jai]

I've also been thinking about freshening up my steering since its one of the only things I haven't touched, and it feels a bit funny and all of the boots are shagged out.

I'm just wondering how critical it is to change the inner bushes and bearings of the rack, or do they not wear much and just the rack ends, tie rods and boots will help alot?


Sorry if this is too far off your original topic

[ke70dave]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (driftspec @ Jul 29 2008, 10:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=568591)</div>
If I moved to coilovers, would an RCA still be necessary to reset the front geometry, or would just moving to coilovers take care of it?[/b]

coilovers are no different to the standard strut, people get this misconception that they are something special (not directed at you specifically)

its EXACTLY the same as your standard strut, except the springs are smaller in diameter and generally the bottom spring purch can go up and down

the term "coilover" refers to the fact that the spring (coil) is over the shock (ie around).

so in fact your stock struts are "coilovers" ( i really do hate the term 'coilover' it gets thrown around to much...)

so in short the fact that your "moving to coilovers" really has nothing to do with weather you need RCA or not.

i run s13 gear so no RCA needed, but my understanding is that with the ae86 stuff the control arm starts to slant upwards as you lower car, and the RCA is used to push the control arm back down again in order to keep it flat. in short you want to keep your steering arm and control arm using the same (or as close too) radius movement. by definition its impossible to keep them exactly aligned through all motion, but you want to keep them as close as possible during the arc that is created during "normal" suspension travel.

back to your original question, as others have said replace the rack ends asap, and while your at it do your tie rods. see how that goes. if its still doin weird crap look at ball joints. you should be able to see if your LCA bushes need doing, from my experience they don't tend to flog out to much, just get to soft and crappy...might as well chuck some nolathane fancy ones in there (complete car kit is like 100$, pretty worth it in my oppinion...wish i had 100$ to get one:P)

my experience with steering racks is that they don't seem to die often, rack ends/tie rod ends take the hit for the team before the rack has any drama. and if it is stuffed just grab a ke70 one from the wreckers, the lock difference is minimal and they only charged me like 25$ last time i got one!

[Driftspec]

^^Thanks heaps for that Dave, its answers like yours that make this community a good one :2thumbs:

Ideally, with time and a little bit of money, I want to get the front end sorted out well (suspension-wise). I'll stick with Toyota gear, I don't need the sort of extremes that moving to something like S13 gear provides. I just want to have a well balanced setup with good handling thats used as a daily, but can go nuts on the road and/or track as I need. It'll be a slow road, but I have to start somewhere :)

[Konakid]

Agree with Dave and Slydar, although the main benefit that a coilover offers over a stock strut is that it can be made much shorter to suit a short stroke shock.

While you're at it with the front end in bits you may as well do the LCA bushes and ball joints, i did them when i got new tie rods and rack ends and the difference is amazing, steering feels like new. Replacing the tie rods, rack ends and reconditioning the LCA's made driving the car so much more fun and predictable.

[ke70dave]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Meathead #2 @ Jul 30 2008, 10:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=568729)</div>
Agree with Dave and Slydar, although the main benefit that a coilover offers over a stock strut is that it can be made much shorter to suit a short stroke shock.[/b]

to an extent that is true

but it is possible to use a standard strut, cut it down to fit a shorter shock, cut off the spring seat and move it down (weld it back on lower down on the strut), and still use standard size springs (200mm diameter or whatever they are)

but then this is pretty much a "coilover" without the adjustable-ness, and weather being adjustable is needed...well that's a whole other discussion

also a standard spring size (~200mm) being much bigger in diameter, you might not be able to get the camber/track change you would like (as opposed to the ~70mm "coilover"), due to the spring being so large it hits the side of the strut tower, all depends on what setup you like i guess.

[Driftspec]

I'll email Dave (AJPS) about replacements tomorrow, I did send him a PM...

Otherwise, where else can I grab 'em? Repco?

[slydar]

whether you need an rca, and how thick, just depends on how low youve gone. the "imaginary line" between the lca inner pivot and ball joint, needs to be flat or pointing down a little.

should be noted, don't confuse this with the bottom edge of the lca, as its not parallel to this imaginary line.