Why should I ? Project (pros/cons)

[milne]

Hey everyone,

I'm new to the forum and quite the newb.
I'm here to ask a few questions and get the wisdom of everyone out there who owns and works on these corollas.

Little bit of background, I'm 19 and am looking to buy my second car, i really would like to experience building it up aswell as driving it as a daily / drifter when i get the time. Couple of my friends are into the drift scene, well at least 1 thinks he is. When we go out i seem to be the one left in the passenger seat the whole time, while they try to skid :sleepy: . 32 sky / s14. I never really get a go but when i do you can't wipe the smile of my face :greenbounce: . Hence why I'm looking into getting into the sport more, aswell as learning about cars and spending my hard earned pennies :2thumbs:

Problem #1 is my old man, i put this idea to him and he told me his thoughts....

1 - don't spend money on things you can't get return for
2 - its just a corolla there a run of the mill car
blah blah blah.... etc, all good points but yeah, i needa convince him on the positives

This was all said with a "wtf" expression on his face.

Just to let you know I'm not some young kid whos just toying with ideas, i do have the money so don't get me wrong. Its either something like a project corolla or just buy outright a S15. To cut this long story short (sorry if its confusing I'm half dyslexic and very terrible at english) I'm out to ask you, are projects worth the long haul and what sorta money does it cost to build i reasonable nice AE.

- body kit, coilovers, sway bars, better brakes, 4age, 2way diff, rims, pretty much whole interior minus the rear.
- don't need no flash stereo or big gauges or hardcore engine management stuff.
After all i am looking for a reliable daily / drift machine :teehee:

I've seen advertised around the place in the for sale section (QLD) allot of good rollers and spares cars let alone some complete ones.

1- what sort of market place are there for these cars ?
2- what spares and parts are easily avail, without spending to much money
3- would i be able to build something close to my specs for 10 - 12 grand, i don't see it nessesary to spend everything on it.
4- are there lots of options from other cars that are easily swapped over?
5- when it comes to road worthy / rego is it hard to get, due to all the parts from different cars etc.

I plan to do most the work myself. Even if i have to buy a complete car with 4age etc. And then strip it down and get it painted etc. etc. I do plan to do most the work myself. Not knowing a whole lot about cars but am not illiterate, whereas my dad ust to be a mechanic, is there enough information / manuals and tutorials out there to help me get to the finished product.

As I'm not sure how much all this restoration / revamping stuff is worth with these cars, i would really appreciate an inside view and some experience to help out.

I'm sure i missed heaps of info that i've though of, just bear with it will all come out when this thread gets a roll on.
thanks again and sorry for the miss jumbled mess.

cheers,
dave

[slydar]

1- what sort of market place are there for these cars ?
2- what spares and parts are easily avail, without spending to much money
3- would i be able to build something close to my specs for 10 - 12 grand, i don't see it nessesary to spend everything on it.
4- are there lots of options from other cars that are easily swapped over?
5- when it comes to road worthy / rego is it hard to get, due to all the parts from different cars etc.

upto about 6-7k modified ae86s are easy to sell, and easy to not loose too much money on. i have never really lost any money on any ive owned. you should be able to build an adm into a basic driftable starter package for around this if you do it all yourself.

beyond this point they get much harder to sell.. the "market' get alot smaller, as this is the point where people really start to question spending that much on like you say "just a corolla".

parts wise.. if youre smart, basically any part can be had fairly cheaply in fairly short order.

if you decide you want to run a jdm diff, then you might get caught out with trying to source axles, but there are a few of the sponsors now who keep them as spares from time to time.

if you have a front ender, headlights can be expensive if you need them in a rush, but they do come up cheap every now and then too.

gearboxes still seem to be around cheaply these days, though the going price has gone up slightly, but still cheap really (upto $300).

those are the main 3 things that break on 86s, that are sometimes hard to come by... really theyre a very serviceable car.

if you spend the type of money youre talking about, you should be able to get upto that spec, but you might struggle to sell the car again for much more than 8, as mentioned earlier, its the point at which they start to make less sense to the average enthusiast.

rego just comes down to who you know really, in qld, their are still dudes who are fairly willing to let things slide if theyre just doing a roady for the owner/driver, as opposed a car you will be selling.

[milne]

thanks slydar for quick response.


you sound sort of like dad when he says hes never lost money on cars hes had in the past. if i build the car for around $10grand and chose to sell it down the track and got 8 i would not see that as to bad. as for rego i do know a guy, but i would like to do things as properly / as legal as possible as i want to use as a daily and don't want to be pulled over and defected in a matter of minutes. Okay now i've sorta go the basic gist of things, whats the most smart / economical way to go about doing this?

Buy a second hand AE for around 4-5 grand?
Coilovers, i have a contact who is sponsored by ISC, which i do believe make a set for corollas.
Diff - what is the story with these? and what sorta cash?
Gear box, i know the gearbox in my current toyota is a POS, what am i looking at to make one sorta bombproof ?
I saw a vertex kit i liked the look of, where would i purchase and what sorta cash?
And down the track would 4agte be an easy / worth while option.

I still have the concern it would be much wiser to purchase a S15, although this would not be as fun and such a learning experience, it is a much more modern car with plenty of parts resource. Fuel wise, the corolla would be a much better option, I'm not sure on the 4age fuel consumption but i don't really care, I'm out to have fun, turbo or no turbo.

With all of whats been talked about, convincing my father is the hardest part. Ill have to compile some good evidence of why this is a good idea.

cheers, much appreciated.
dave

[redsprinter]

most smartest way is to go is buy one that is already completed . you'll save your loads of money and your dad wont kill you . if you have your heart set on a ae86 then go for it ... but trust me buy one thats done and then spend your money on making it your own ... it might be a good learning experince to do it from scratch but it would be even smarter imo to buy one done and then Taylor it to your needs.

i mean buying one that has already all the goodies on it but it doesnt me it is the end for you or the car .. more just the beginning because when you start driving you'll relies how much the car isn't complete ....

not to be des-repectfu to you or your dad but i say if you love it and want to do it that bad don't let anyone stop you .... save the money and go out a do what you wanna do but make sure you follow through it and not be like many people with great idea and only go half way cause they relise its too hard....

someone here once said "if you think it gonna take you this long .. times it buy 3 and thats how long its gonna take... that also applies for your budget'
oh and if its an ae86 find one that has no rust or one that has the rust taken out of it .... that is a must if your new to this.... you want a good platform to start with.. rust eats alot of your money that could be better spent .... LOL

good luck .

[milne]

thanks red sprinter. top info there. i had a chat to dads mate and he couldn't see anything wrong with it, the only downfall is that there an old car with a pretty big markup thanks to the drift world. what would i be looking at for a ae with rust removed, with very little mods. i've got no worries spending some time on it, as i do have a car atm which is what i'de continue to use until the ae was up and running. and to reasure what i said in the first post, i have the money and I'm no dreamer, yes i do toy with ideas as do we all, but i'de like to see where this goes. i do have a contact in spray, i'de do all the prep work and get him to spray it up. probably just pay attn to : suspension, brakes, exhaust, seats, steering, shifter, diff. if i could get one with the 4age silver top or the 4age black top 16v or 20v with very little or no rust would be unreal, depends on what figures we are talking about, because i can see where my dads looking at it from, paying 5-6grand on a 20+ yr old car is a bit much, but if it makes me happy and i learn along the way, why the hell not. i bought pokemon cards when i was young, boy what a waste of fuckin money. made me happy at the time thoe. i just need people like you guys to steer me in the right direction and what stuff is gona approx cost me. I want a reliable daily / drifter with power under the bonet, but as little aftermarket mods as possible, just the few i've listed above. This car will end up being my weekend ride due to getting a work ute for the weekdays. anyways thanks again, look forward to more opinions.

cheers, many thanks,
dave

[RobertoX]

isc don't make ae86 coilovers to my knowledge btw

[slydar]

forget power on your budget. if you were real handy, you might just scrape together a 20v build for 12..

but like old mate said, you can easily buy an 86 with 20k spent on it for less than 10.. but in your first post, you kinda said, the whole point of doing an 86 is to build it from scratch.

i also agree to a point.. yeah you can buy someone elses car.. but its always gonna be theirs really. like gillys beige keto.. thats gillys car, i don't care how many people have owned it...

really, youre talking about 2 different things with your choice between an s15 and an 86.

an s15 is an awesome car, and realistically, from most peoples points of view, a better car than an 86 in just about every way.

but it is never gonna give you the same satisfaction/pride of ownership, as an ae86 you built yourself. either car can be a smart purchase, there is no denying either car can return good resale value, but the s15 just doesnt really have that facet.

[milne]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (truenosedan @ Aug 14 2008, 09:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=575596)</div>
isc don't make ae86 coilovers to my knowledge btw[/b]

no no they don't, i just checked that... one of the other models might fit..?

slydar. I'm not going for power, it would still slide like a champ stock engine?
i don't mind buying someone else's car then completely rebuilding / changing a few things to suit my needs.
as for s15, it was another option, i just might not be able to justify the costs involved.

i might see whats in the 4sale section and go have a look at some and see if its what i really want to do. as you say... s15 is never gonna give you the same satisfaction/pride of ownership, as an ae86 you built yourself.

and to add note s15 seem to hold there value extremely well.

cheers,
dave

[Benny]

I don't understand, you've got the money for an S15, but only want to spend 10k to build a sprinter?

[milne]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Benny @ Aug 14 2008, 09:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=575613)</div>
I don't understand, you've got the money for an S15, but only want to spend 10k to build a sprinter?[/b]

its complicated. i wouldn't go spend 20+grand on a sprinter, when i could get a s15 for that price.
if i could build a sprinter for around 10 and still have as much fun as the s15 i would, and save up for my business.
as i will get a weekday ute from my boss.

cheers,
dave

[blaq.boi]

I'm definatly not a pro drifter no where near it, but i say go ith the ae86
ive previously owned a r32 gtst
and a r32 gtr

gtst was my first car... which just by chance came with a 2 way
so i started drifting in it...

then i decided time to spend big bucks on the mighty rb20 and turn it in to a beast... i began to strip the interior and order parts..
but then i saw an offer on a r32 gtr i couldnt refuse... so i spent my money on that instead
so now with 2 skylines under my name i needed a daily, the gtst was of the road because it took me ages to put it back together (interior n stuff i was lazy)

so i bought a ra60 silly car for 300 bucks... spent some money fixing it up
there was my thrash drift car
t
drifting in the rb20, way more power than an ra60 was beter, especially with the 2 waY
BUT
theres only a certain amount of .. hmm experience/skill maybe ud call it? you can obtain whilst driving a car YOU ARE VERY VERY VERY AFRAID OF CRASHING

you will learn, but u get to this point, where you don't want to try somthing tooo out there.. because of the chaces yo might dint/smash your car

when i got the ra60... there was nothing holding me back...
i just went bezerk... i went to a mates place out bush, and went drifitng in the dirt, smashed HARD in to a tree... got out, looked that the dint.. laughed it of and went harder

s15's are expensive car, plus thier considered "new" and insurance is high...
if you smash that it will hit you harder ( no pun intended) than it will if you smash your sprinter.. what with dmax guards going for 3-400 bucks...
this the same reason why I'm seling my gtr
and my gtst
and buying a 86...

IF you get the s15, i say buy a shitbox for 300 bucks and learn to drift in that, if you want to try drifitng in the s15... TRACK DAYS!!!!
you can drift on the street, but your always looking over your shoulder... take it to the track.. keep it there... and ull learn quicker


your inexperienced at driving...
s15 - cruiser... mild mods
ae86 - do whatever the hell you want with it...

[Sprinter86]

Get yourself one of these

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/175252.jpg

and a paddock for a while, and i garantee you will want a little toyota that revs its tits off over a s15 anyday!! :D

[orido]

no offence to the OP but it sounds like you really want a cheap s13 not a sprinter

[lowau]

Just buy an S13 or R31, they will drift much better "out of the box" then any std ae86, maybe even with a 16 4age in it.

Or if you want, get a R31 with a rb20 or rb25 conversion and s13 suspension and go sick, if you crash bad you can just reshell it to another r31.

I'm saying all this cause it seems that you want a cheap drift car, and AE86 is not a cheap drift car.

One more thing, you WILL lose money doing up cars no matter what...

[rthy]

all too true...

when i 1st bought my sprinter it was cheap thrash car, but a few years later u can now get s13 with manual turbo for the same price as a 4age (in some cases 4ac!)

hell if u wanted to do some track or offroad u can get a lancer gsr (cc/evo3) for way under 10k

[redsprinter]

yeah alot of these guys are right .. sounds like you want a cheap drift car .. nothing wrong with that aswell .... please keep in mind ae86 drift cars are not cheap ... to run or build.. alot of these car stay in the garage on stand more of the time then on the track due to not people crashing them but not having enough money to drive get the running ...

have you consider a cheaper alternative like the ae71? and i would have to agree with everyone.. s13s are damn cheaper and easier to begin with .... you can pretty much build one with off the shelf parts and buy all the parts under one roof eg .. just jap ( bad example i know )

[johl]

if you need to start a thread to convince urself maybe a project car isnt best for you.
if you around 10k and really want a hachi just buy one from japan and leave it as is. ur money will go before you know it if you choose to build one from scratch. i bought my ke with just an engine conversion and i'v already spent around 10k and thats just on suspension and a little bit on the driveline.

if your comparing an s15 to an 86 the s15 wins hands down. its like apples to oranges. just look around and buy what YOU want

[rthy]

haha ae71 cheap? not anymore
even trying to build up a ke70 isnt that cheap

isnt the s15 like 20k

[redsprinter]

i think still cheaper then a ae86 ... i relise they are going up .... how about rwd celica?

[milne]

<div align='center'>Get yourself one of these, and a paddock for a while.</div>

I build a offroad 125cc 4spd go-kart with dad when i was around 10ish. Then i got into road karts, spending lots of time and money at the track but never settling into the sport. Since then a mate and i went halfs in a old laser which we build as a padock basher and thrashed it on my property, only damage was when hit a tree stump causing a flat... nothing majour. absolutely destroyed it, in the end engine gave in.

<div align='center'>I'm saying all this cause it seems that you want a cheap drift car, and AE86 is not a cheap drift car. </div>

I not only want a drift car, i also want a daily, which in the end will only be used maily on weekends. And whenever i get a chance to hit up the track.

<div align='center'>even trying to build up a ke70 isnt that cheap. isnt the s15 like 20k</div>

Was untill my mate sold his for 250bux not realising what a fool he'd been.
As for s15 i've got more then enough to buy one a put some parts on it.
I just don't see it a worthy investment for a car which in the end will be used a few days a week, and whenever i get the chance to go track.

<div align='center'>One more thing, you WILL lose money doing up cars no matter what</div>

always did realize that.

As for further action, i am going to have a look at a rolla this weekend. Do some homework and make my decision.

Thanks everyone for there opinions / knowledge
dave

[orido]

Reliable daily and drift car don't really mix in my books/opinion.

if you wanted a reliable daily and grip track car i can understand

E7`s seems like the perfect match

[fergo308]

I've had 15 cars so far over the years. included in that list is two S14's and three AE86's. the bottom line is this: if you have to convince yourself to buy an 86,you don't want one.

buy the S15,do the usual light tune mods and go have fun in a late model,reliable car with good power,good handling and good resale.

to get an ae86 anywhere near even a std S15 you're spending several months in the garage and several thousand dollars worth of parts,and even then,it's an old corolla that's only worth something to a small,select market.

as a mate who has three S13's and a cefiro in his garage atm said to me the other week: 'sprinters are a very bad value for money option. you have to spend a lot to get not that much out of them.' and it's all true. satisfaction in your work and fun factor are all they have going for them. the economics of an ae86 will never make any sense to anyone other than a devotee.
I'll never sell mine,but I'm a realist enough to understand that they're well past it compared to what's out there.

if you like the car for what it is,and are willing to put in a huge amount of work and money to see it through,then go for it. otherwise,go for a turbo nissan.


Justin...

[MountainRunner]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blaq.boi @ Aug 14 2008, 10:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=575639)</div>
s15 - cruiser... mild mods
ae86 - do whatever the hell you want with it...[/b]

Fuck no 86's are exxy as these days parts are way more exxy and rarer then silvia parts

just buy a sr20det S13 and be done with it :P Cheap Easy and parts fucking everywhere

[Ru-iki]

If you wanna spend less, get a ke.

Nothing like a disposable shell to turn those crashed car frowns upside down.

Dad will understand too.

[shorty]

buy someone else's project thats half finished ie ae71/ke/ 86 etc etc

that way u can still build/ finish it off urself AND learn something about cars aswell as saving a few dollars

but if u want to go pop a skid right now, s13 would be the way

parts n spares are reasonably easy 2 get hold of for both dirty nissan and toyata

or buy one of the above mentioned and just get a CLEAN ke for a daily banger

my 2c

[johnny_08]

just buy one with suspension already setup and a 4age. When i bought mine i sorta regretted it beacuse i wasnt used to the bumpiness and noise, till i kept the car for a while then did a few runs through some twisty roads, u don't need heaps of power to have fun ;)

ps: if u know someone with one, go for a ride in it..... that'll make ur mind up if u want one or not

[sly1300]

pick any TWO.



Fast-----Cheap-----Reliable


Simple as that.

oh and forget the ae86. build a sleeper ke70/ae71. or build a s13 thrasher.

[balistic]

I don't quite understand the "buy a KE instead of an AE". The only money you save is on the initial purchase? After that everything costs exactly the same to improve performance as you basically need the exact same components? You might save, what a $1000 on buying a KE over an AE86?

[Roku_70]

well i say if you signed up to this forum in the 1st place, you obviously have an interest for toyotas so stick with them if you want. my advice is probably do exactly what you have said. get a cheap ke70/ae71/ae86, chuck in a 4age 16v or 4agze with coilovers and some better wheels and you will be set. good luck with it, you wont regret it!!!