200hp AE86 as a daily driver?

[Oped]

Hey guys,

I am currently saving up to attempt to build the closest thing I can get to a 200hp n/a AE86. But the thing is I would want to use it as my daily driver as well, not just as a track car.
And well, I know it would idle very rough from lots of cam work, and would be noisy and not the most comfortable thing to drive around etc, but those things really don't bother me as I used to drive a fucked starion with the balance shaft bearing chopped out (that was rough) and now a 86 corona with blown suspension which I can make bounce like it has airbags :greenbounce:
But what I love about driving are those things which make you feel closer to the car and engine itself. Not sitting in a brand new Mercedes which is so quite and comfortable you forget it's on.

Anyway what I am wondering, is there anyone here who drives a AE86 day to day with that sort of power?

And generally what it is like driving a 200hp AE86?

Thanks guys

[chapl]

you got 10k+ for the engine??

do some research mate.. plenty of info

plus have fun with the cops hassling you

[Gunner]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Oped @ Sep 24 2008, 03:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=592117)</div>
Hey guys,

I am currently saving up to attempt to build the closest thing I can get to a 200hp n/a AE86. But the thing is I would want to use it as my daily driver as well, not just as a track car.
And well, I know it would idle very rough from lots of cam work, and would be noisy and not the most comfortable thing to drive around etc, but those things really don't bother me as I used to drive a fucked starion with the balance shaft bearing chopped out (that was rough) and now a 86 corona with blown suspension which I can make bounce like it has airbags :greenbounce:
But what I love about driving are those things which make you feel closer to the car and engine itself. Not sitting in a brand new Mercedes which is so quite and comfortable you forget it's on.

Anyway what I am wondering, is there anyone here who drives a AE86 day to day with that sort of power?

And generally what it is like driving a 200hp AE86?

Thanks guys[/b]

Learn to maintain the cars you have, then start thinking about big power n/a cars, if you can't maintain the one you have now, you won't keep up with the work to keep anything crazy going on the road.

No offence, but its the truth

i forgot to mention, it will not have enough torque down low to be a decent driver anyway, not unless you like driving around above 5-6000 rpm

[stinger_007]

" these pockets ain't empty.............................."




but they soon will be...............

[Klutch]

You have enough money to afford a 200hp N/A car but can't afford a $500 daily driver?

[hachirusto]

you do realise how much work is involved in getting 200hp out of a NA 4age, its not just as simple as putting a pod filter and exhaust on the motor

[Konakid]

Build a 160hp one, will be far, far cheaper.

[shinny]

if your looking for 200hp maybe the SR track might be one to look at,

just depends on what your looking for,
and then once you get the power you want your going to have to look at sus. and brakes,

good luck, :turned:

[balistic]

boosted 200hp is cheaper and easier :2thumbs:

[ae71]

dont forget the deliveries of a night, those hotels go threw quite a bit of produce...

yes id consider something along a mildly worked s14 sr20de wih vvti.. cams, itb's extractors you would be getting close to your target power with quite a bit moro toque.

i sure wouldnt want to wear out a motor that i had just spent a shit load on driving to work, plus having to wait 5mins for it to warm up in the morning, not just hit the key and start driving like most other shitters/stocko dailies.

[70XIN]

there's basically noone on here with a 200HP 4A fullstop, let alone those that drive one daily

[yoshimitsu9]

f20c seems like a reasonable option...

i mean, if your willing to spend 10k on an engine why not just buy an engine with that sort of hp from the factory?

[Patric]

There's a write up on a 200hp Neweara ae86 of Neweara imports in Japan.
He lives in Japan and drives it on the streets of tokyo.
http://www.aeu86.org/viewtopic/newera-impo...s-report/t/3950 (http://www.aeu86.org/viewtopic/newera-imports-200-bhp-n-a-ae86---progress-report/t/3950)

It should answer your questions.

[Intense]

just drop in an s15 sr20de, 200hp from the box and as civilized as can be

[marvis]

All you people are telling him he can't have a 200HP 4AGE, when he has not mentioned a 4AGE at all, only a AE86?

[focus_7]

He said N/A... What about a 3sge, could get 200hp out of that N/A

[kaibeecee]

it's not feasible unless you're talking about a 200hp motor at the crank.

not to mention the other factors you'd need for a motor of that hp rating

-cross mission box/ratios
-twin-plate/good super single clutch - NOT street, nor gearbox friendly especially in stop-start traffic
-diff, ratio etc

if you think you can do it, do it

if not, i'd look at forced induction, stat

[redsprinter]

200hp out of a n/a 4age is i think every ae86 owners dream .. and icing on the cake if he/she could drive daily ... and yeah 200hp will be only at the crank right ? at the wheel i think is another thing all together ..

force induction will be a lot easier. and if you cant drive turbo cause your on you P's then 3sge for sure cheaper and easier ... s2000 conversion would be awesome but again MOLLA ... money ... lots of it and then lots of fab/ metal work .

i mean 200hp at the crank for any 4age turbo is piss easy ..... every turbo ae86 owner im pretty sure is pulling that number at the crank .

oh GOOD LUCK ... dont let any of us tell you. you cant do it ..

one thing you will need is lots of money 15k min imo ( correct me if im wrong). cause you could get all the parts to push 200hp n/a but i bet it wont without massive amounts of tune and testing .

[tony_kim]

3sge + a few mods.... 200hp with more torque than the 4AGE.

should be cheaper too.

[Clinton]

beams 3sge 205hp at the wheels.... check out brendan's (dr1ft-pig) build thread

[lo_rolla]

I'll let you all know how I go.

That engine in that thread has a lot less done to it then I expected. Mine will be similar cam specs and compression ratio, just probably with CNC ported throats, almost perfectly round valve seats (CNC), bigger valves, better rods. And I'll have the satisfaction of turning the key knowing I turned all the bolts to put it together.



But it's on stand by while I get the rest of the car finished, might as well do the most expensive thing last.

[lowa]

yeah beams ftw....brendans is nuts and all from a standard motor....focus on the whole package that the car delivers....power figures are sweet but maybe try driving like a 100kw ae86 or ke70 with a nice suspension set-up and you will see what i mean.....

Good luck man hope you can sort somethin out...i hate seeing projects thrown away just because lads get over them.

[sprintdaddy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Oped @ Sep 24 2008, 03:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=592117)</div>
Hey guys,

I am currently saving up to attempt to build the closest thing I can get to a 200hp n/a AE86. But the thing is I would want to use it as my daily driver as well, not just as a track car.
And well, I know it would idle very rough from lots of cam work, and would be noisy and not the most comfortable thing to drive around etc, but those things really don't bother me as I used to drive a fucked starion with the balance shaft bearing chopped out (that was rough) and now a 86 corona with blown suspension which I can make bounce like it has airbags :greenbounce:
But what I love about driving are those things which make you feel closer to the car and engine itself. Not sitting in a brand new Mercedes which is so quite and comfortable you forget it's on.

Anyway what I am wondering, is there anyone here who drives a AE86 day to day with that sort of power?

And generally what it is like driving a 200hp AE86?

Thanks guys[/b]



Put your money where your mouth is and buy one don`t just dream about it like most of the other little kids on here.

[rthy]

dont think 200hp NA 1600cc cars get driven daily, infact dont they get rebuilt after every event?
anyways maintenance is the key factor.

in one's mind it seems like a good idea, but in practice not quite feasible

[Nutter86]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Oped @ Sep 24 2008, 03:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=592117)</div>
Hey guys,

I am currently saving up to attempt to build the closest thing I can get to a 200hp n/a AE86. But the thing is I would want to use it as my daily driver as well, not just as a track car.
And well, I know it would idle very rough from lots of cam work, and would be noisy and not the most comfortable thing to drive around etc, but those things really don't bother me as I used to drive a fucked starion with the balance shaft bearing chopped out (that was rough) and now a 86 corona with blown suspension which I can make bounce like it has airbags :greenbounce:
But what I love about driving are those things which make you feel closer to the car and engine itself. Not sitting in a brand new Mercedes which is so quite and comfortable you forget it's on.

Anyway what I am wondering, is there anyone here who drives a AE86 day to day with that sort of power?

And generally what it is like driving a 200hp AE86?

Thanks guys[/b]
<div align='left'>Don't put an abortion (sr20de) in your car! It might produce 180hp if your lucky and FUCK all torque (lazy motor), stick to a tuned toyota 4age 16v engine to 160hp to 180hp or a BTP 20v or choose any of the 3sge's from generation 2 onwards, the later you go the more horsepower a shit load more torque, faster revs than a nissan! POS! I have yet to see a nissan motor shame or out last a Toyota one :2thumbs: </div>

[pegasusfx]

hahaha this topic is stupid please end this silly talk cause its never, NEVER going to happen mate sorry i own a race car believe in my words NEVER

[slydar]

although the suggestions of other motors are fair,

i am gonna assume you do mean 4ag.. i think its a fair assumption.

in that case, i say.

silvertop 20v on adaptronic. start there. thatll give you a taste of what youre buying into. everything else dialled. then decide if you want to build a built motor.

by that stage you should be more clued up, on whether you really want it, and if you do, the right way to do it. if you do, youll already have the throttles, bottom end (well the main basic parts), and engine control and loom to do it.

[jdmtrueno]

hope you have a loan shark near by, staying NA and getting this power is not cheap!

Lots of money, blood, sweat, tears, research and heartache are all involved... oh and did i meant it will be very expensive?

[Simon-AE86]

My 1st sprinter had a 180 hp 4age in it, built by previous owner and consisted of some massive 308 degree cams, 11:1 CR and a stack of other shit, im glad i didnt build it as it would have cost a fuck load. It also had a 3 puck TRD clutch and a few other goodies.

Anyway i drove it daily.. for quite a while i might add.. and this thing was quite a dog to drive in traffic. It idled at 1100 rpm and lumped over like a bridge ported rotor, needed some tricky work to get off the line without bogging down... from idle to 4500 rpm was the slowest ever.... soo un responsive in that range.

however, once in the hills... and 4500 rpm upwards... it was so bloody awesome to drive, revved to 9000 and loved it. made strong power around 7500 and pulled quite hard.

Here is that motor for the doubters.
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/8986/190hp4agetrustexhaustuh7.jpg

Now i have a KE70, with a S14 VVT SR20DE in it... stock motor, stock exhast manifold, stock ECU and just a pod. pulls hard from idle all the way to redline, and prob goes a shit load better then my 1st ae86. lot more driveable and cost SFA to do. I daily my rolla and its so nice to drive in traffic as the torque just pulls you along in 4th gear at 40 kph no worries.

[Oped]

okay okay okay, 200hp way overshot. I got far too ambitious after reading bill sherwoods write up.

Maybe 150-160hp is more realistic.

I'll have a look at that 3SGE too.
But if the 3SGE is so good how come so many people stick with the 4AGE? Does it have some bad drawbacks or something?

[Intense]

Because it's a lot of work to put a 3sge in where as a 4age is easy to do.

160hp isn't hard to get at all, silvertop 20v will pump that out standard

[jdmtrueno]

Are you talking 150-160hp at the fly? or at the wheels?

Cause a stock bigport is around 125-130hp (96kw) at the fly.

[Oped]

Wow Neweara's ae86 is beautiful. Such an awesome AE86.

I would definately say 150-160 at the wheels as a end result.

I'm liking the sound of the 3SGE though, I need to do some deeper research on how easy it is to fit in (i hope its not too ridiculous)

[redsprinter]

it possible to do as the conversion has been done .. should be sweet when done how much are you looking at spending ?

why n/a .. and whats the reason behind the car ?

[ke70dave]

i think you also have to consider what is meant by the term "daily driven"

in my car for instance i drive it daily, but its through the middle of wynnum to get a slurpee from the 7/11.

where as daily driver for someone else might be stop start traffic through the CBD eveyday.

in my case i'm sure a crazy ass 4age wouldn't be anywhere near as bad compared to someone who drives to the city each day.

i think your aiming too high....even at 160hp. (160hp at the wheels that is, power ratings at the flywheel are useless!)

i get the impression that you havent had a 4age at all? if that is the case, just throw in a fresh bigport. and have a blast in it. and slowly do it up maybe...get some bigger cams at some stage, and an aftermarket ecu if your bank allows.

i think its better to start driving around a stock engine, and slowly do it up, so you see the fruits of your work. rather than spend 5k on an engine, put it in, and have no feel for how much "better" it is over a stocko engine. (Same goes for cars in general, especially suspension work)

disclaimer: i have only driven a 4age once, and don't have a 4age for my own (i do in the garage, but its not in the car yet)...ps 4k's suck

[Intense]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jdmtrueno @ Sep 25 2008, 06:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=592458)</div>
Are you talking 150-160hp at the fly? or at the wheels?

Cause a stock bigport is around 125-130hp (96kw) at the fly.[/b]

stock silvertop is 160hp at the fly
stock black top is 165hp at the fly
stock 101 gze is 170hp at the fly.

These are stock figures, get a decent exhaust and I'm sure you can unlock a fair bit more out of them

A stock silvertop would be a blast to drive. I really don't think you need more than 160hp in one of these cars unless you're going to go nuts on every other component like decent brakes and suspension and tyres. But since it's a daily driver this probably won't happen.

Find someone near you with a silver or black top in it and get them to take you for a ride. I think you'll be pleasently surprised

[rthy]

dont trust those stock figures, but otherwsise I agree with your points

[johl]

do you actually have an 86 yet or is this just a pipe dream?

in all seriousness tho who cares about power. its all about torque imo.

[ae86rally]

I have 88 rwkw in my rally car (last dyno) and I would hate to have to use the motor in a daily. On Transport stages its a pig. No power to speak of under 4000 rpm and then it takes off, screams to its rev limit of 7800. forget staying NA if you want that much power and still have it driveable.

After market engine management will be needed and tuned by someone who nows their stuff. Mine will idle at 600 rpm and has a nice flat torque curve from 4000 -7800. more can easily be got but the usable rev range narrows. It can actually be driven faster with less power as it makes it easier to stay in the torque range.

high power peaky NA motors just dont work on the street. plus you will prob want a button clutch with all that power. (either in or out) again not nice on the street without a lot of practice and slipping a button clutch will wear it and the flywheel out very quickly.

[tony_kim]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Oped @ Sep 25 2008, 01:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=592444)</div>
I'll have a look at that 3SGE too.
But if the 3SGE is so good how come so many people stick with the 4AGE? Does it have some bad drawbacks or something?[/b]
4a engines come in ae86s..

3s engines dont...

its more work to do a 3SGE conversion and also the engines are a litle more costly (or a lot more in the case of BEAMS 3SGE)

[Intense]

Why would you need a brass button clutch for a motor that only puts out at max 180hp? Seems like over kill really, a heavy duty would be fine under that sort of load and you get the added advantage of still being able to slip it

[patience]

I can see the advantages of using them for drift and they would wear far slower doing plenty of track work
But you need a weak link in your drivetrain and I would rather my clutch go over time then do a gearbox.

I agree with daily driven cars, I just swapped a puck clutch out of my recently bought one for a normal HD, it feels great.

[driftke70]

3sgte ftw, 265hp from the factory

[lowa]

what about a hyabusa motor they are around 200hp??? haha just kidding/spaming....would be cool to see though.....

[J_D]

If you are located in Sydney, give Paul (The Irishman) a call he's got a monster Treuno with a 8age under the hood and a shitload or JDM goodies inside and out.

It's getting engineered too.

$16000

[dr1ft-pig]

200hp daily is good fun

[tony_kim]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dr1ft-pig @ Sep 26 2008, 04:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=593102)</div>
200hp daily is good fun[/b]

200hp daily is good fun... with a 3SGE beams that is :P

ur car is great brendan.

[Oped]

I had a look at Breandans beams powered AE86... it is awesome what he has done

Pretty much all I want out of AE86 and more at an affordable price (just rang around to see 3SGE prices)

[Oped]

Actually not sure about the price thing, as Im sure there's alot more needed than a half cut.

A bit of a long shot, but has anyone ever seen a tech article (bill sherwood style) of this conversion done. I'd really like to know more about it and whats involved and needed

[dr1ft-pig]

thanks mate

sure is good fun.... but i might add that it is a fucking pig to drive, cops hate it (they cant catch it) girls hate it, commo drivers dont know what hit them and its just a plain sick car to drive once it out on the track which is where it should be

my enigne is stock with A?M management (adaptronic) and its still a pig to drive

maybe keep that in mind, lets just say if your gonna have a 200rwhp 86 it IS going to be a rolling defect and you HAVE to run from cops at all expense to keep the fucking thing on the street


do NOT make a pig hachi with more than enough useable power and expect a girl to get in it hahahahhaha

ive had ONE chic in mine that liked it haha and even she was scared at first haha

[tony_kim]

my gf like trueno :P

really i think ur 3SGE ae86 with 200rwhp is a lot more streetable than a 200hp (at the crank) 4age, right ??

[dr1ft-pig]

possibly

its taken a fucking hardcore tune to make that atw but, they only make 210-215 @ crank stock

but yeah i dare say it would be more streetable being a stock engine and also haviing a massiv torque range

like 4age have around the 4000 to 6800 mark

going by driving my car for the few months i have with this setup it seems to pul great from around the 2800 mark all the way to 8000 mind you it pull VERY hard from around the 3500-4000 mark as the vvti hits it

[tony_kim]

way cooler than TVIS... lmfao !!!

[rthy]

what makes it such a pig to drive? it shoudlnt be unless you have done some engine mods that I dont know of, of is it the lack of brake booster?

[dr1ft-pig]

bigger injectors i think id have to confirm that with ant but that is

[Oped]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
sure is good fun.... but i might add that it is a fucking pig to drive, cops hate it (they cant catch it) girls hate it, commo drivers dont know what hit them and its just a plain sick car to drive once it out on the track which is where it should be[/b]

Was the engine running like a pig before it was in?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
maybe keep that in mind, lets just say if your gonna have a 200rwhp 86 it IS going to be a rolling defect and you HAVE to run from cops at all expense to keep the fucking thing on the street[/b]

Doesn't it just need to get a engineers certificate?

[dr1ft-pig]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Oped @ Sep 26 2008, 09:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=593219)</div>
Was the engine running like a pig before it was in?

who knows

its just jerky n shit in town, as people have prevoisly stated u need a twin plate or good single to handle that kind of power

i run an OS giken twin plate

Doesn't it just need to get a engineers certificate?[/b]


yeah if i took my time with the install it could get one

[ae71]

can get a engine mount kit for f20c so it fairly much bolts in :P

[70XIN]

i'll agree with HD clutch over brass-button

tee-fitty isn't the strongest bid of gear, so yeah ...... shit clutch or shit tyres thanks (or just dont abuse it .. no fun!)

[dr1ft-pig]

twin plate + abusive driver = dead t series every few months


im gettin me an e series

[ae86rally]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (intense @ Sep 25 2008, 10:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=592899)</div>
Why would you need a brass button clutch for a motor that only puts out at max 180hp? Seems like over kill really, a heavy duty would be fine under that sort of load and you get the added advantage of still being able to slip it[/b]


it came with the car. previous owner didnt want to risk any slip when racing. when racing its sooo much better. its just grip and go. have driven heavy duty and this is much better for racing its also lighter than a heavy duty unit, something to think about with the number of gear changes in a rally.

[biggo]

Fail

To the topic poster - You must pass the learning thing first

[Oped]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (biggo @ Sep 28 2008, 07:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (index.php?act=findpost&pid=593521)</div>
Fail

To the topic poster - You must pass the learning thing first[/b]


A fail would have been me trying to build a 200hp and failing (which is what would have happened)

Isn't this the learning thing?... I post my questions and queries and more experienced people here help me out and send me in the right direction. If you follow the post that's exactly what is happening.

I underestimated the ease of making a 200hp 4AGE (by a long shot lol) and the friendly guys here have helped me out, and from that, I have learnt alot more than what I new before I made the post.

I've got no where to ask these questions except here and asking a mechanic. But I don't want to waste a mechanics time ringing him during working hours asking him questions like this, so i post here where people can volunteer their knowledge in their time.. makes sense?

And on that, i would like to say thanks to all the guys who have helped me out; the info you guys post is invaluable to me, and I appreciate it alot! Thanks guys!

[Oped]

Hey soz biggo, that was a bit of an attack, i was pissed off at the time

[Clinton]

can we lock this yet?

[driftke70]

3s bolts straight in

[biggo]

rb30 bolts straight in

[Luciano]

so does the vn commy v6.. 2 right side mounts ;)

[sdm86]

why go v6 when you can drop a genIII in there.

[Clinton]

why go a gen3 when an rb26det will fit in perfectly and be reliable to run at 200hp

[Konakid]

OS Giken RB31DETT, straight fit, only need to grind a bit off the passenger chassis rail.

[johl]

yup this thread just died