20V Quads to 16V Bigport > Induction / Plenum Box

[GeeEss]

OK; I know this isn't going to be news to any / many that have done this conversion but the stock S/T Plenum won't fit (Tried fitting it upside down too) so I'm looking at what my options are (running open with sox / sausage filter not at option right now).

Only seen 2-3 that do the Job @ below;

1. Noby Booth
2. Toda - Carbon.
3. Custom S/S unit from NZ

I was kind of interested in option 1 (i.e. cheapest) but was a bit concerned with how durable a plastic plenum box would be in the long term.

Would like to hear from anyone who's come across / used these things w.r.t. above.

PS: Car is a JDM AE92



Ed. Running Quads on a T3 Manifold; meaning S/T ITB's are u/side down; i.e. Throttle Opener on top / linkage underneath. Have seen a few 20V Quads+T3 Adapter installs w/o Throttle opener. What if any issues / problems can this cause?

[Matt]

NA or turbo?

If NA most people keep open trumpets, both look and sound better in my opinion.

Something custom like this is what you'll need if turbo'ing it.

21072

That is the plenum I used on my b/top ae92.

But either way, there are some options out there.

[FoldKing86]

I use the Noby Booth with my ae86 20v.

Sorry not sure if it would fit quads with adapter plate?

Fits, nothing bad to say about it really except 50mm trumpets don't fit, had to use crappy 25mm ones, but i reckon using no trumpets inside is better. Well for me personally.

[GeeEss]

Hi Matt,

Car is N/A Bigport with 10.5:1 CR; Cams, Quads, Headers & A/M ECU.

No argument with look/sound better but want to keep open trumpets for Track days.

Got an "invalid attachment specified message" Could you re-send in diff format?

[GeeEss]

Re. Noby Booth; s/one on AE86 mentioned Carbon unit was $200 delivered in May 2010; Greenline currently list at at $410 B4 shipping???

[Sam-Q]

has anyone confirmed the fitment of a gtir box on a 16V yet?

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/showthread.php/25870-Using-a-nissan-GTIR-intake-on-a-20V

I guess it would be lower and much level which you would think would make it fit better

[GeeEss]

Thanks. Yeah, this might be an option but would need to run upside down in an AE92 (assume this is do-able?). . . I'll see if I can get hold of one and try it on for size. .

[Sam-Q]

yes will run both ways no problem, too bad your not in Vic

so what part of the OEM 20V box doesn't fit?

[LittleRedSpirit]

Re. Noby Booth; s/one on AE86 mentioned Carbon unit was $200 delivered in May 2010; Greenline currently list at at $410 B4 shipping???

I think you will find the fibreglass one is a little over $200 plus post, the carbon one has always been twice the price.

[GeeEss]

I think you will find the fibreglass one is a little over $200 plus post, the carbon one has always been twice the price.

Yeah that's right but I was worried about the L/T durability of the fibreglass one; plus I'm not 100% sure it will fit my configuration.

I don't think Greenline would know and as Noby Booth's Site is all in Japanese can't go direct to the Vendor to ask the question.

[GeeEss]

Most of it. Angled drop-down section underneath TB#1 fouls badly on the Alternator and mounting flange plate gets nowhere near the throttle flanges.. I suppose I could Frankenstein this section but then I'd be severely reducing Plenum volume around #1 TB which is a worry. It's better upside down but still doesn't fit as it fouls on Voltage Regulator(+ can't see fasteners when trying to bolt it on + looks crap).

Another thing to bear in mind. I was going to utilize the unions in the OEM Plenum that provide filtered air to the idle control solenoid and power steering pressure switch. I take it neither the GTiR / Noby Booth Plenums have these unions?

This is not too much of an issue with the GTiR; as I'd just tap into the Aluminium but am worried about drilling holes and mounting brass unions in Fibreglass / Carbon boxes.

PS: I've seen stock S/T Plenums on Big-ports with Quads but P/Steering was removed and Alternator mounted on Ex. side.

[GeeEss]

I emailed Noby Booth direct and (with some careful use of Google translator) got a reply (including dimensions) back in pretty short Order. Basically it will just fit but if need be I can order the thing sans holes and move them 5-10mm up from standard locations.

I still have a couple of concerns however.

1. Regarding it's limitations on Trumpet size; how would this affect the car in street spec Vs using a modified S/T Plenum mounted u/side down that would enable longer curved Trumpets?

2. Rigidity. The OEM item is pretty sturdy with a double skin around flange area. Would it be advisable to use the Noby Plenum in conjunction with say a laser cut AE101 Quad flange plate, to stiffen it up, and if so are they available off the shelf and how much are they?

[FoldKing86]

When i got the fiberglass one it was $400 posted EMS give or take a few pennies. Yen was approx 90-95 at that time. Carbon from memory was about $110 more.

Durability, well its still like new bare a few scratches. Has not faded or cracked or anything.

Show me a pic of where its going and ill tell you if it may fit. To be honest the Noby booth isn't very big. Could possibly fit a 2ltr coke bottle inside, but only just.

Too my knowledge the Noby booth can be ordered with no holes drilled, no way the stock trumpets will fit, as i stated 50mm wont fit.

As for stock intake hitting alternator, is it possible to use a longer belt and move alternator out of the way.

[Sam-Q]

Most of it. Angled drop-down section underneath TB#1 fouls badly on the Alternator and mounting flange plate gets nowhere near the throttle flanges.. I suppose I could Frankenstein this section but then I'd be severely reducing Plenum volume around #1 TB which is a worry. It's better upside down but still doesn't fit as it fouls on Voltage Regulator(+ can't see fasteners when trying to bolt it on + looks crap).

Another thing to bear in mind. I was going to utilize the unions in the OEM Plenum that provide filtered air to the idle control solenoid and power steering pressure switch. I take it neither the GTiR / Noby Booth Plenums have these unions?

This is not too much of an issue with the GTiR; as I'd just tap into the Aluminium but am worried about drilling holes and mounting brass unions in Fibreglass / Carbon boxes.

PS: I've seen stock S/T Plenums on Big-ports with Quads but P/Steering was removed and Alternator mounted on Ex. side.

you can just run a cam cover breather on the idle control valve.

Would all your problems be solved if your alternator was moved?

[GeeEss]

Re. Cam Cover Breather; thanks; just saw that on a previous thread earlier this evening. . . .

What size vac line should I be running to outlet of ISCV? Reason is, I've used up all 6 unions in the Eagle Collector / Vacuum Box except large one on end meant for the Brake Booster* so wanted to run 6mm vac line from there direct to ISCV outlet.

*Running separate Booster vac line from additional union tapped into top of T3 manifold on Cylinder #1

Re. Alternator. Possibly. . . . Was thinking about that too. . .Looked at GZE layout but that won't work; my P/S is in the way.

I could make a custom slider bracket that let me rotate Alternator anti-clockwise another 45-60 Deg / down 45-50mm - but I might be getting close to / hitting P/S lines adj. to firewall.

If that wasn't enough it would get tricky, as I'd have to look at re-jigging cast Mounting Bracket it pivots on, in which case I'd probably just stump up the $$$ for the Nob Box instead.

[Sam-Q]

I think the ISCV want's a 12mm+ line

hey hold on I am thinking 20V again, what sort of idle controller does the 16V have?

I might be able to help with the alternator bracket, what if it was located just above the sump on the exhaust side?

[GeeEss]

Re. ISCV:

To be honest I'm not sure.

My car's a JDM AE92 and I thought it's equivalent of the 20V ISCV was the < VALVE, MAGNET (FOR IDLE UP DEVICE) > shown in ToyoDIY exploded view below.

http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_J_198807_TOYOTA_COROLLA_AE92-AGMVF_8717.5.html?hl=88691F

I did however think it strange that this device was part of the HVAC vacuum system and not the EFI system @ 20 ISCV.

I have just now realized that this is incorrect as the 20V has its own HVAC idle up device @ below (which means there is yet another system I haven't factored into my vacuum layout the A/C idle up. Great. . .)

http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_J_1994_TOYOTA_COROLLA_AE101-AGMVF_8717.html

Looking at the diagrams again, I think the 16V equivalent is the Auxiliary Air Assembly as shown below

http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_J_198807_TOYOTA_COROLLA_AE92-AGMVF_2211.html

In any case, Anthony @ Kaizen < who is doing my harness > said I needed to replace it with 20V unit.


Re. Alternator positioning:

No I can't move it there because I'm running A/C. Don't laugh, the Climate Controlled system in FXGT is better than the 10 year newer manual system in my AE111 so unless I decide to turn the FX into a track only car, I'm keeping it.

As mentioned I can swing my Alternator down out of the way with a custom bracket so I can use OEM S/T Plenum but that would make for a looong bracket that would have quite large cantilever forces on it.

Re. Intakes in general:

A previous poster said you can't use 50mm* Trumpets with the Noby box; according to NB, their Plenum is 110mm tall and he uses 25mm Trumpets**- so what's the minimum air space you need between trumpet end and casing? (you def. can't fit curved OEM trumpets; they're 175mm long Vs ~ 180 width of NB Plenum). Distance between Trumpets & bottom of casing in OEM S/T set up is ~ 50mm.

* TODA and Jun both make 30mm Trumpets for S/T ITBs.
** General consensus is that trumpet length should be min 3/4 Throat diameter so for S/T; min 36mm long.

Another solution (if I have a spare arm+leg) would be to use Jubride Venturis @ below thread and mount either; 1. OEM Plenum box (with modified Flange) or 2. A/M Plenum on those and then matching A/M Trumpets w/in the S/T Plenum.

http://www.clubroadster.net/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=39898

Yeah, factor out the money, and there are lots of ways to skin this cat. . .

[GeeEss]

Thought I'd spend the last day of my holidays jerking around some more on this car. . .

Anyway; I've figured out the basic reason the S/T Plenum won't fit - should have looked for the obvious first. . .

As you know, the flange face of the TB's isn't symmetrical, having an adjusting screw on one side. The T3 manifold mounts TB's u/side down so adjust screw flange fouls on S/T Plenum recess, which is only wide enough for mounting screw @ other side of TB.

Apart from that (have to remove one variable at a time) its quite possible that the throttle linkage would also hit the u/side of the Plenum too.

Hmmm. Starting to question the design of this Adapter. . I know it was made for open trumpets but how are you meant to attach / adjust the bloody throttle cable when its u/neath the TBs? With difficulty, that's how. .

Anyhoo; I'd like to know if anyone out there can make me a set of Ali / (hi-temp plastic?) S/T TB Flange spacers about 10-15mm thick; that ought to kill three birds with one stone;
1. Allow mounting of Plenum
2. Move Plenum away from Throttle linkage
3. Move Plenum away from Alternator

[Sam-Q]

I already have the profile of the flanges, need to cut a batch of hi temp plastic and have regular orders with a water cutting place so that's easy, you just confirm that will fix the problem first

[GeeEss]

That's easy enough to do; I can make up a couple of rough ones out of some scrap I have in the Garage & test fit them.

One possible issue that occurred to me; unless these flanges exactly match TB diameter, won't all these joins make air flow into TB's more turbulent and if so, is this good / bad?

[Sam-Q]

if the company making the joins are matched right you will have no losses

[GeeEss]

Thanks Sam. As per PM; would appreciate your input re OEM Vs NB Plenum before I make my decision.