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View Full Version : XT130 Struts and brakes with AE86 PS knuckles - Smaller diameter ball joints / better LCA?



stahlz_ae86
27th November 2011, 11:38 PM
Hey folks,

In my AE71 I've been running XT130 struts (which I converted to coilovers) for around 6 months now and I'm wanting to correct the steering geometry.

My setup consists of...
XT130 Struts shortened 2 inches to suit ST185 inserts
XT130 brakes
AJPS 40mm RCA's
XT130 Steering knuckles (super long)
XT130 Lower control arms

My brother and I worked on the car today, with intentions of installing AE86 PS knuckles but encountered the problem of the LCA end hitting the rear face of the brake rotor. After looking at it for a bit it was clear the cause was the location of the ball joint hole in relation to the two strut bolts. I've had a bit of a search and found others who encountered the same issue and fixed it by smashing the end of LCA with a hammer. That idea sounds a bit average to me and I've been thinking of modifying the XT130 steering knuckles.

Rather than doing that, my question is... What other Toyota's or even other makes of car might have a similar style LCA with a smaller diameter balljoint and therefore smaller radius end? KE30/55 pops to mind but not being in Auto trade I don't have access to books / parts on shelf etc.. Can anyone check the BJ diameter of a KE30/55 in a book at work? Not only that I will need to know if the taper will fit the AE86 PS knuckle too.

Whatever I do to solve the issue I'll update it here, but I sure as hell will not be "fixing" the issue with a hammer. I'm running +3 caster and don't like the stress it pulls on the LCA bushes as it is, so I'm considering another LCA with a smaller radius at the end on which I can modify the inner ends by cutting off exixting bush hole and plating/tapping to use rose joints/rod ends.

Another couple of things I thought of to fix the issue were NCRCA's which upon further thought seems like a dumb idea, or a longer RCA to push the LCA low enough that it clears the rotor. Either way those 2 ideas seem to suck. If I can't fix the problem with LCA's I might have to resort to modding the XT knuckles.

Are there knuckles from another Toyota which are similar length to AE86 PS but have the balljoint hole on the outer direction of the strut bolt holes?

AJPS
27th November 2011, 11:48 PM
ra40 knuckles have a slight ncrca effect...

they are about 10mm higher than most and sit further out

stahlz_ae86
28th November 2011, 06:58 AM
Do you know what the distance between the balljoint and tie rod holes is by any chance?

Jacobxxx
28th November 2011, 10:47 AM
ra40 knuckles have a slight ncrca effect...

they are about 10mm higher than most and sit further out

Are ra40 similar to ra60/mx73 struts where the bolt holes are further apart than ae86/xt130?

AJPS
28th November 2011, 01:01 PM
Do you know what the distance between the balljoint and tie rod holes is by any chance?

sorry I dont, it was a while ago that I had some

But I would suggest cutting them down as they were 'corona' long

they also had very little ackerman

AJPS
28th November 2011, 01:02 PM
Are ra40 similar to ra60/mx73 struts where the bolt holes are further apart than ae86/xt130?

dont quote me but im pretty sure they were xt/ae pattern

Hen may possibly be a nut
28th November 2011, 10:42 PM
RA40, AE86 and XT130 all share bolt spacing on their steering arms. In other words all those steering arms will bolt to all of those struts.

stahlz_ae86
29th November 2011, 06:41 AM
Anyone know an answer to the LCA radius / ball joint size question?

timbo
29th November 2011, 03:41 PM
Does it foul with the wheels straight or when you turn them?

Jacobxxx
29th November 2011, 04:00 PM
RA40, AE86 and XT130 all share bolt spacing on their steering arms. In other words all those steering arms will bolt to all of those struts.

Did not know that. Interesting. What are ra40 brake sizes like compared to ae86/xt130?

takai
29th November 2011, 04:38 PM
If you use RA40 struts then you can use brakes like this:
http://gallery2.plebeians.net/d/32777-2/1000001132.JPG

300mm discs, wilwood caliper. Fit under 15s.

stahlz_ae86
29th November 2011, 05:44 PM
Does it foul with the wheels straight or when you turn them? Wheels straight, could not even get the bolts in square to the strut enough to be able to bolt together. Other people who want to run the 86 arms with my setup bash the end of the LCA but I'm not real keen on that idea as it might make next balljoint change a pain in the arse.

I'm thinking the solution to my problem is going to be making a jig from my AE86 PS arms and cutting / shutting a pair of XT130 or RA40 arms to suit said jig. Went to pick-a-part after work as their website had a 1980 Celica listed but sure enough the website was wrong and that car had been removed from yard, spewin'.

stahlz_ae86
29th November 2011, 05:48 PM
What's the angle of the stub axle like on RA40 struts?
What's the stock brake size? Is it 266mm like the XT130?
What steering arms and lower control arms are you running with that setup?
Are the hubs between XT130 and RA40 different?

takai
29th November 2011, 07:04 PM
Kingpin angle (stub angle) is the same as the AE86 struts. I measured it a while ago. From memory maybe 8.4deg.

No idea on stock brake size, ive never seen them.

Steering arms are AE86 PS arms, LCAs are stock AE86. Using a T3 NCRCA in there too.

Hubs may be slightly different, but not enough to be noticible i think. Big difference is in the strut, which has a removable caliper bracket (like AE86) as opposed to the fixed bracket on the XT130.

stahlz_ae86
29th November 2011, 09:18 PM
Hmm they seem as though they must be a good base to build coilovers from then. I'm really happy with the XT130 setup I've built for the 71 but it just needs to be a bit more precise with the steering feel. The long arms give it a lazy feel. Also why do you use NCRCA's? Is it to get around some sort of no camber top rule in a racing class? Or is it just to push the rotor away from the LCA? Are the wheel bearings in the RA40 hubs bigger than the tiny shit in the AE86 hub?

takai
29th November 2011, 10:46 PM
For IPRA we have to use stock LCAs, hence i cant gain track by modifying the LCAs and so i use NCRCAs too.

Bearings and stub axle is much bigger on the RA28/40 gear. Same size as the XT130 gear.

Hen may possibly be a nut
29th November 2011, 11:19 PM
IMHO RA40 struts are a great base for coilover and/or brake upgrades on AE86s.

- Big stub axle and bearings
- Same geometry as AE86
- Fits same shocks as AE86
- Backing plate setup is easy to design caliper adaptors for
- Fit AE86 steering arms
- Cheap and easy to find

driftke70
5th December 2011, 11:14 PM
moar camber

stahlz_ae86
5th December 2011, 11:48 PM
Sorted this issue out thisarvo finally. Made a pair of knuckle jigs based off AE86 PS arms last friday and went to wreckers on weekend for XT130 knuckles. Cut knuckles on a long diagonal, and cut some AE71 back ends as the shape was better. Set them up in jigs and tacked. Vee'd them out deep and heated until red with oxy, welded with the mig on a high setting and left them to cool naturally. Installing tomorrow.

Here's some pics of the making of the jig...

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/9/5/263835.jpg

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/9/5/263836.jpg

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/9/5/263837.jpg

And a photo of the knuckle comparison...

AE86 PS left, AE86 man steer centre, XT130 right

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/9/5/263834.jpg

Basically made a pair of XT130/AE86 PS hybrid knuckles in the end.