4age into ae71 clutch problem

[Moebius]

Car - ae71

motor / part in question - 4age, t50, 3.7kg flywheel, used exedy clutch (I think), new thrust bearing

problem - Clutch making loud whining noise when depressed.

occurs/started when (if applicable)- Just did the conversion from 4ac to 4age.

Tested the clutch a few times initially, drove backwards and forwards a few metres and everything seemed okay. Got in to go for a test drive once it warmed up and whenever I put the clutch in there was a loud whining noise which sounded a lot like a belt slipping, but it was coming from the clutch area. Also the revs dropped when I put the clutch in, not sure if that is related or if it's because of the light flywheel. Tried the clutch a few times and it kept doing it so I figured something was wrong so stopped the engine. Had a look in the engine bay and there was a small amount of smoke coming from inside the bellhousing, coming out mostly from the clutch fork area.

The thrust bearing was noisy before the conversion so I replaced it while I had the gearbox out. It was more of a squeal type noise before though. This is my first engine conversion so my first thought is that I've done something wrong, but would like to get some of your expert opinions please :right:

[trikzlane]

did you clean the flywheel and pressure plate with brake cleaner or such to remove grease, also is the what type of clutch is it and is it new

[Moebius]

Hmm, no I didn't clean either. The clutch was on the engine when I bought it, but it looked like it had plenty of life left so I didn't replace it. It looked like a normal type clutch, I think it was an exedy but can't be sure as my memory is terrible.

[Cerby86]

to be honest my first guess would usually be the throw out bearing. does it do it when your in neutral? (just to eliminate the gearbox as a problem) After that I would be guessing a problem with the surfaces between the clutch plate and flywheel. Either residue or corossion. But another thing I would check would be the pressure plate. As it's a used clutch possibly the pressure plate is wearing out and not clamping hard enough. After that I would be checking the clutch plate alignment or maybe even if something has dropped in the bellhousing and is merrily flying around in there. Actually come to think of it maybe your rear main seal is leaking oil onto the flywheel!!

[marvis]

^ This.

Did you use the correct housing too?

[timbo]

It's the throw out. I have the exact same setup with a new organic clutch plate, rebuilt TRD/Exedy pressure plate and machined Toda flywheel and the throw out rattles in neutral and makes a slight whine with the clutch depressed. I haven't noticed any lack in the clutch performance.

[RobertoX]

99% it will be the spigot bearing

[slide86]

99% it will be the spigot bearing

errr no it wont.

it would be the spigot if the noise was there with the clutch out, and when pushing clutch noise goes away. The input shaft stops spinning removing any load from the spigot.

this noise only happens when the clutch is pressed, meaning the thrust bearing is only turning when clutch is in........causing the noise.

[RobertoX]

Errr... Spigot bearing is not a thrust bearing.

It only spins when the clutch pedal is depressed and there is relative rotation between the flywheel and the input shaft.

Think you're getting it confused with the clutch release bearing

[slide86]

clutch release bearing IS the thrust bearing.

pretty sure a mechanic with 10 years experience doesnt get confused between the two.......just sayin is all

[Moebius]

to be honest my first guess would usually be the throw out bearing. does it do it when your in neutral? (just to eliminate the gearbox as a problem) After that I would be guessing a problem with the surfaces between the clutch plate and flywheel. Either residue or corossion. But another thing I would check would be the pressure plate. As it's a used clutch possibly the pressure plate is wearing out and not clamping hard enough. After that I would be checking the clutch plate alignment or maybe even if something has dropped in the bellhousing and is merrily flying around in there. Actually come to think of it maybe your rear main seal is leaking oil onto the flywheel!!

Yeah it was doing it in neutral as well.

The clutch was working fine when I bought it, the engine has recently been rebuilt, and the throwout bearing is brand new, which is why I figure it's something I've done during installation. I guess I need to open it up and take a look, but I'm not real sure what I'm looking for.


^ This.

Did you use the correct housing too?

If you mean the bellhousing, yeah it's the standard adm t50 one from the ae71. If you mean some other housing can you elaborate?

[Nikkojoe]

How does the clutch pedal feel? Normal travel or weird?

Did you put the bearing the correct way onto the carrier?

[Moebius]

Clutch feels kinda soft for about the first half, and then firms up. The noise only starts when it's fully to the floor.

TBH I don't remember much about installing the thrust bearing, it was a couple of months ago. Should it only go in one way?

[Cerby86]

okay a couple more questions. Did you take out the thrust bearing before putting the new one in? lol not trying to take the piss :P
Which throwout bearing did you get? Ie. did you walk into ripco and go hey I've got an ae71 with a 4age in it, I need a bearing yo! and then the barely trained monkey goes "oh yeah what car was the 4age in?" And you were all like "an ae92 for sho N*****R!" And the monkey was like cool I'll just charge you a fortune for the wrong one okay???
Cos you need an ae71 one obviously. hahah (I apologise for the above however I'm watching the boondocks as im typing and its also school hols so I don't want all the 12 year old dreamers to think I'm not "hip" and "with" "it")

Another thing is if you got the wrong thrust bearing in then it might be spinning in the housing?

[Nikkojoe]

I think you will just have to pull the box off and have a look, possibly take some pics (or I can come around and have a look one of these days :P)

As cerby86 said, could be a fwd one you put on but I don't know how you can get them on anyway (or if it is possible to). I was thinking you might have put the bearing on backwards when pressing it onto the carrier, which can put the back of the bearing close to the retaining clips of the clutch fork (possibly rubbing on them when depressing the clutch).

[Moebius]

okay a couple more questions. Did you take out the thrust bearing before putting the new one in? lol not trying to take the piss :P
Which throwout bearing did you get? Ie. did you walk into ripco and go hey I've got an ae71 with a 4age in it, I need a bearing yo! and then the barely trained monkey goes "oh yeah what car was the 4age in?" And you were all like "an ae92 for sho N*****R!" And the monkey was like cool I'll just charge you a fortune for the wrong one okay???
Cos you need an ae71 one obviously. hahah (I apologise for the above however I'm watching the boondocks as im typing and its also school hols so I don't want all the 12 year old dreamers to think I'm not "hip" and "with" "it")

Another thing is if you got the wrong thrust bearing in then it might be spinning in the housing?

Definitely took the old one out :)

Went to my local clutch place and asked for a thrust bearing for an ae71. They had to take one out of a complete clutch kit for me as they didn't have one by itself. The teenage chick serving me didn't have a clue about anything, but the guy that she asked sounded like he knew fo sho what he was talkin bout :P


I think you will just have to pull the box off and have a look, possibly take some pics (or I can come around and have a look one of these days :P)

As cerby86 said, could be a fwd one you put on but I don't know how you can get them on anyway (or if it is possible to). I was thinking you might have put the bearing on backwards when pressing it onto the carrier, which can put the back of the bearing close to the retaining clips of the clutch fork (possibly rubbing on them when depressing the clutch).

I had a mate press it onto the carrier, so it's possible it's backwards. I'll try taking of the box tonight and see what we can see. If you want to come around any time this week and take a look then I can supply alcohol or whatever :D

[Javal]

Errr... Spigot bearing is not a thrust bearing.

It only spins when the clutch pedal is depressed and there is relative rotation between the flywheel and the input shaft.

Think you're getting it confused with the clutch release bearing


clutch release bearing IS the thrust bearing.

pretty sure a mechanic with 10 years experience doesnt get confused between the two.......just sayin is all

Slide86 is right on all counts. Clutch release bearing / throwout bearing / thrust bearing = same thing.

[RobertoX]

Not saying it's the clutch release / thrust bearing. I'm saying it is the spigot bearing (the small one at the center of the flywheel, pushed into the crank).
Please re-read my post and note that nowhere I have stated it is the clutch release bearing...
The noise stops when the clutch pedal is released, you hear it when you press the pedal. I have had this problem before. It is a common problem.


Also the fact that the noise is only there when the clutch is all the way to the floor makes sense.
If it was the thrust bearing you would probably be able to hear the noise when the clutch is half depressed.


Order a 6001s bearing from any bearing shop. Pull the one out of the flywheel and replace it.
(you should always change this over when you do the clutch because its a pain in the arse to pull the gearbox out for a $10 part)

[Javal]

I had a mate press it onto the carrier, so it's possible it's backwards. I'll try taking of the box tonight and see what we can see. If you want to come around any time this week and take a look then I can supply alcohol or whatever :D

I was going to ask this question before, but I'd imagine if it was on the wrong way, it would have started making terrible noises the first time you depressed the clutch pedal.

Dis-assembly and inspection is the best way to proceed.

[Nikkojoe]

Don't know if it's the spigot (unless the engine is not my old one). If it is my old engine, spigot was only about 10,000km old at most, probably closer to 5000km (replaced because when i bought the engine old one was seized). Not to say it isn't, just less likely.

But yeah I can come around tonight or sometime during the day thursday. Just sms/pm me

[Nikkojoe]

Throwout bearing was pressed on the wrong way.... I win :)

[Cerby86]

is it poor form to quote yourself? Cos I seem to remember someone saying "My first guess would be throw out bearing." hahahaha

[RobertoX]

Damn those 1%'s ;P

Good work

[timbo]

Throwout bearing was pressed on the wrong way.... I win :)

How did that happen?

[Moebius]

How did that happen?

Well it doesn't say on it anywhere which way to press it into the carrier. I just gave it to a mate and asked him to get the old one off and press the new one on...

Anyway, should be all sorted tomorrow when I get another bearing. Thanks to everyone, especially Nikkojoe for coming round and helping out, it's a big relief.

[timbo]

Oh ok. Wasn't being rude, just wasn't sure what happened as I had mine pressed on by the clutch shop.

[Moebius]

Oh ok. Wasn't being rude, just wasn't sure what happened as I had mine pressed on by the clutch shop.

I didn't think you were, just explaining how it happened :)

Rookie mistake I guess.

[timbo]

No worries! Hope it works fine now.

[Panda BVB700]

here we go have an internet war and gotta say without seeing it, will most likely be the throw out/thrust or the hundred other names that douche bags use

[timbo]

Chill Winston.

[Cerby86]

here we go have an internet war and gotta say without seeing it, will most likely be the throw out/thrust or the hundred other names that douche bags use

your tampons overflowing :P