Cam questions

[85Kai]

Hi guys,

I'm collecting parts for my engine build and I'm thinking of getting a set of Toda cams. The specs are 288 degrees with 8.5mm of lift. The cams will be going into a car which will be daily driven. In short, the engine will be a bigport, mild head work, original intake manifold extrude honed and no TVIS, lightened flywheel, balanced bla bla etc, aftermarket ECU, extractors and the compression ratio bumped up to somewhere around the 10-10.5:1 (at a guess). Final drive will be 4.556:1.

I'd really like to from people who have aftermarket cams in their cars. Basically the whole experience. What cams and setups are people running? What's the car like in traffic? What's it like low down? How's the power delivery? Is the car enjoyable to drive or has it become annoying? What sort of power is the engine making?

I'm after real experiences guys so no Playstation test 'n' tunes or stuff you might of read or heard of about a guy who knew a guy who used to know a guy.

I may consider going for different cams but at this stage these are on offer and for a good price.

Look forward to hearing from as many people with as many experiences as possible.

Cheers
Matt.

[Matt]

A mate has 292's in his ae92 sx, and it is a pig to drive in that you have to give it some revs to get it off the line... Which on a daily basis isn't all that fun in traffic... having said that it is 12:1 compression, blacktop quads etc. and makes around 110kw at the wheels.

[meadan]

Im running 292s with 7.5mm lift on a reasonably stock smallport with itbs, exhaust, ecu and very mild porting.

Its by no means a pig to drive in traffic, but does need some revs to be enjoyable. It was making roughly 40rwkw @ 4000rpm and 70rwkw @ 5500rpm. Max power was 82rwkw at something like 7200rpm...

For daily driving in traffic it wouldnt be too bad, but for enthusiastic/hills driving it really doesnt have enough power down low.

[timbo]

Ah so I can't comment on comments but I can comment on a car I've been in/seen/heard?

I'd run more compression.

[sundee]

Cams change the positions of your power band within the rpm range.

For a dedicated daily 288's are to big IMO.
I agree with timbo, you need more compression,
How often will the engine be "on cam" - or working in the rpm range that the cam was designed for?
My answer - hardly ever, unless your a hooligan and you flog crap out of it everywhere.

The cams need a really good set of headers and exhaust system to get the benefits.
It's going to be loud, lumpy, and your gonna have Much larger throttle position to obtain the same torque down low then you would with a smaller more suitable cam, so which means greater fuel consumption..

I think even 272's would be pushing it for a dedicated daily driver.

[Matt]

All 4ages love higher compression.

[Rice86]

My experience

JDM Trueno
16v bigport, standard intake with TVIS working
toda 272 7.9
toda 264 7.9
toda pistons, not sure what rating
very small head port work on the intake ports from what i have inspected
Toda racing flashed 16v 4age ECU with old school Apexi SAFC tapped in
JDM T series diff so guessing 4.3 by standard

TVIS helped the bottom end power thats for sure, it was fine driving no doubt but it lacked bottom end compared to a standard bigport..im pretty sure it pulled harder from 0-8000 then a stock but from driving feeling, it felt flat

5000-8000 is where it pulls and it keeps going..but its still no vtec effect.. but was a pleasure to drive day in and out.. no "i wish it had more power here or there" it basically worked like a standard bigport, but with so much more pull after 5000 to 8000...yeah they only redline at 7500 but im sure i took it to 8500 once and power did not fade..

[Rice86]

My experience

JDM Trueno
16v bigport, standard intake with TVIS working
toda 272 7.9
toda 264 7.9
toda pistons, not sure what rating
very small head port work on the intake ports from what i have inspected
Toda racing flashed 16v 4age ECU with old school Apexi SAFC tapped in
JDM T series diff so guessing 4.3 by standard

TVIS helped the bottom end power thats for sure, it was fine driving no doubt but it lacked bottom end compared to a standard bigport..im pretty sure it pulled harder from 0-8000 then a stock but from driving feeling, it felt flat

5000-8000 is where it pulls and it keeps going..but its still no vtec effect.. but was a pleasure to drive day in and out.. no "i wish it had more power here or there" it basically worked like a standard bigport, but with so much more pull after 5000 to 8000...yeah they only redline at 7500 but im sure i took it to 8500 once and power did not fade..

then that engine blew

next engine in same car

16V 4AGE smallport with JDM TVIS intake with no TVIS
Fully rebuilt
TRD 0.8 headgasket
2nd hand Toda high comp pistons, again dont know what rating
Brand new race bearings
balance bottom end

power from 4000-7500 easy.. did not feel like it pulled as hard as the bigport from 5000-8000 but the smallport had crazy mid range to redline with more stockish motor compared to the bigport, and a fresh rebuild does work wonders too..

its all about the perfect combo for your needs, this was just a road car

[Jip86]

ive got,

280 deg cams
st quads
smallport head (light port/polish/decked)
7afe block/crank
smallport pistons
1mm cometic hg
toda 4.1kg fly
11.3 cr
4.1 diff gears

When the lobe centres were 110/110 while i was running it in it was a bit of a pain down low to get off the line.

Now with the cams set at 104/104 its a downright pain in the arse in car parks/traffic. i find i drive around in a gear lower than with a stock 4ac as its very cranky below 3500 and im trying to keep the revs up.

EVERYONE who drives my car stalls it the first time.

Now dont get me wrong, i LOVE my cams. The sound with quads with some revs up its skirt is awsome. But i have a work ute and a good car so its not my daily. Daily i'd stick around 264s or so.

[sundee]

Hehe that's because not many guys would not know how to drive a car with A super light fly Wheel. And then there's the clutch...
I love them! Win In every way... But let's not get started on that topic.

[meadan]

haha yeah.

Hill starts with a super light flywheel, 5 puk clutch and hydro handbrake are lots of fun :P

[SamsTA22]

haha yeah.

Hill starts with a super light flywheel, 5 puk clutch and hydro handbrake are lots of fun :P

Yeah, just rev it up, drop the clutch, and pray no cops are within 200m of you.

I haven't driven any cammed up 4ages. (yet) But I have driven other engines with cams, and compared my experiences with other, and ultimately, one person can say a car is a sluggish as hell, when another person drives the same car as a daily and loves it, sayings it isn't bad at all down low.
Its all personal preference. Although a good idea is what Jip has done. Buy the cams you want, then adjust the lobe centres to find a setting you like the best.

[85Kai]

Thanks guys, it's all really good information so far. I'm also looking at running 288/272 or 272/264 combos.

Timbo, try not to think too much about what guidelines I've set on posting here. If you've got relevant, factual information then I'm only too happy to hear it. It's more to scare off the Playstation Generation who have quality input like, 'those cams are way too big, man! You need to run twin turbos if you want it as a daily driver. And don't forget to upgrade your gear knob to handle the extra power.'

The goals and parameters are set for the build and it's just a matter of trying to achieve the best result with the smallest compromise. Once the engine build starts I'll try to do a detailed thread on it as there will be a few parts used that should surprise and shock a few people.

If anyone in Brissy has an engine with cams in it I'd be happy to meet them and see how the car idles, runs etc.

[skin]

i have toda 265 and 256 with quads on bigport, due to ecu only its a prick to start and idel down low but has really nice pull down low through to 7.5 Id say be great for a daily

[85Kai]

Thanks Skin. Did you find they made a big improvement over the stock cams?

[dansomerville]

My old motor was a bigport head on 7 rib block. It had 264's both intake and exhaust.

Honestly I couldn't fault it as a daily, good bottom end, solid mid range and revved out nicely.

Lots of fun in the hills with a very usable power band and no drama's at all in traffic or reliability wise. Did run out of puff right up in the rev range, buts that's never where I needed my power.

[85Kai]

Thanks Dan, that's the sort of engine response I'm after. However, the goal is also to knock about a second off my 1/4 mile time of 16.77 (not that the car will be used for drag racing, it's just a goal I've set). Do you think your old engine was good for a high 15 down the 1/4?

[timbo]

I knocked 1.5sec off with a rebuild and a more compression, plus the car had shit tyres and my lack of drag racing skill. I would say that and cams, which have a usable peak within the stock rev limit, is the way to go.

[dansomerville]

I honestly can't give you an answer I've never dragged my car been a car on a drag strip to even know what a 15 second pass would feel like.

Sorry I can't help, but maybe setting a goal relating on the drivability of your car, how you want to it perform and how much your willing to sacrifice may give you better scope to make a decision.

Dan.

[85Kai]

Thanks guys. I think I'll try to find something a little less aggressive.

[Rice86]

264 or 272..anything lower isn't worth it even for street, might as well just stay stock and save the cash