4AGE 16v ITB's start issue

[stixy]

Hey all,

now forgive me if it has been covered before but i haven't really seen a setup like mine???

I'm having trouble with it starting, its a fresh conversion, all wired up correctly (i hope lol) but it will not start???

It's a JDM 16v bigport with Quads, standard ECU, now i know the standard ECU wont support the Quads but it came with an Apexi SAFC, but im pretty sure it should still run (just rough) on the stock ECU?? corect me if im wrong.

1. i have Fuel
2. its reaching the rail and injectors (brought new injectors)
3. i know it runs because of the good old start ya bastard down the trottles
4. am getting 12v to injectors (tested with multimeter)
5. hooked a wire from 10 pin plug, plug5 (injector) to + terminal on coil to see if i could get it going....
6. i have spark (pulled a plug to check)

So also i have like a little canister that a heap of vac lines are hooked up to, vac sensor, 4x little nibs on the bottom of each throttle, im guessing my FPR is meant to go to this too? see pic

http://imageshack.us/a/img138/9171/imag0146da.jpg

This is how the lines come out of the quads, excuse my lack of paint skills =D

http://imageshack.us/a/img404/5149/quads1.png

this is my Quad setup, have been told by a few peeps that they have never seen quads like this before? they are on a modded NISMO adapter plate???

http://imageshack.us/a/img692/8496/imag0145u.jpg

now i have found these few wires wrapped up in my injector loom, i have tested them and a few have a current/earth running through, i think some are off the old cold start injector???

http://imageshack.us/a/img507/3633/imag0144h.jpg

so please if any of you have any ideas as to why i get no start action let me know!!!! any info will be greatly appreciated.

I hope i have given enough info hahaha

Thanks,
Ben

[It's_AUDM_Yo]

Have you hooked a test light up to the injectors to see if they pulse? That would be the next thing to check.
If they don't make sure the ecu has the starter signal, which would cause the injectors to not pulse.

Yes the FPR needs vacuum.

Those extra wires I would check the ecu pinouts for them but of the top of my head.
The black/white would be a starter wire
Green water temp maybe, although it doesn't look like a standard wire.
Black/yellow is a sensor usually depends on adm or jdm etc so check for your specific engine.
Brown will most likely be the earth for that sensor.

The two on the far right look like reverse lights.

Also check your timing mine was waaaaay out and was cause me issues when I first did my conversion.

[stixy]

Thanks It's_AUDM_Yo, i actually just checked the injector on cyl 1 to see if it was pulsing, i just brought an LED fro Jaycar and poped it into the injector plug, my f@#king battery is flat...... can't win!!!

back to auto barn brought a jumper pack, oh what do ya know that's flat too......

swapped battery out of the other car and yup NO PULSE SIGNAL!!!!

How do i check the ecu has the starter signal???
thanks agian

[Matt]

You need to wire the tps in reverse if using the stock ecu....

Is the main earth from the 16v loom connected (4 or more brown wires) somewhere, it normally bolts to the inlet manifold.

[stixy]

You need to wire the tps in reverse if using the stock ecu....

Is the main earth from the 16v loom connected (4 or more brown wires) somewhere, it normally bolts to the inlet manifold.

ah ok.... didn't know that about the TPS.... but tis is how i got it, it was wired that way? should i turn it round n have a go?

yes, there is a strap that is 4 wire connected to the intake, i have also run an earth from the 1st bolt on intake to the chassis just in case it wasn't earthed properly.

Exhibit A.

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/0/4/3/408363.jpg

i have had the first injector out testing it to see if it get pulse.

[It's_AUDM_Yo]

Earth looks fine.

The starter signal is IGF its a black/yellow wire that comes from the igniter, so I would just check that has continuity to the plug going into the ecu.

Another thing you may have to look into is if your injectors need a resistor pack or not and if it has one.

[stixy]

Earth looks fine.

The starter signal is IGF its a black/yellow wire that comes from the igniter, so I would just check that has continuity to the plug going into the ecu.

Another thing you may have to look into is if your injectors need a resistor pack or not and if it has one.

Ah yup yup, shall check that!

Yeah i was reading about resistor packs etc, not sure if it has one or not??? shall have to have a look

[Futo_gt86]

http://imageshack.us/a/img138/9171/imag0146da.jpg



The Stock Ecu is a Map sensor 16V Ecu?
If so you will need to hook MAP sensor vacuum.





http://imageshack.us/a/img404/5149/quads1.png

this is my Quad setup, have been told by a few peeps that they have never seen quads like this before? they are on a modded NISMO adapter plate???

http://imageshack.us/a/img692/8496/imag0145u.jpg



Those are 20V quads yeah?
If so the 4 points underneath, if not drilled out, are covered by the throttle butterfly's when throttle is closed.
Not a good source at idle.
Nibs on the ends can be T pieced into 1 then run to brake booster

If they are 20V quads
Read this
http://www.my-acoustic.com/Car/vacuum/vacuum/vacuum_lines.htm
And this
http://www.my-acoustic.com/Car/vacuum/4_throttles%27_vacuum/4_throttles%27_vacuum.htm
And this
http://www.my-acoustic.com/Car/vacuum/fishtank_vacuum/fishtank_vacuum.htm




now i have found these few wires wrapped up in my injector loom, i have tested them and a few have a current/earth running through, i think some are off the old cold start injector???

http://imageshack.us/a/img507/3633/imag0144h.jpg




^
Is that black/white wire STA?
STA Tells Ecu engine is being started - connect this wire to the start relay output, or the black starter SOLENOID wire, not the main cable.
... It must have power, when the engines turning over and starting (if not powered, no start / couple of fires that’s it).

[stixy]

Are they 20V quads? or Nissan GTIR? look like 20V silvertop?



^
Is that black white wire STA?
STA Tells Ecu engine is being started - connect this wire to the start relay output, or the black starter SOLENOID wire, not the main cable.
... It must have power, when the engine turning over and starting (if not power, no start / couple of fires that’s it).

man im not at all sure about that wire??? all of them were wrapped up and seemed to be in no use at all???

i initially thought that they were GTIR quads when i saw the adapter plate (has nismo on it) but pretty sure they are Blacktops

[Futo_gt86]

You know how to pick Blacktop's? Base of the TB is oval like shaped where as ST are rounder

[Futo_gt86]

Is there a wire in the engine loom connects to the black/white wire that goes to your starter motor (not the main cable from battery)?
Coz you need one.
Starter sense.
Status is only has power when you turn the key for start/winding engine over.
Sends signal to ECU so it fires for coils and injectors

[stixy]

Dude your a Freaking genius!!!! it was a start sense wire and now its alive!!! well very rough but its alive =D

[Matt]

Here is that link to wiring up the 20v quads to run on a 16v ecu..

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/showthread.php/35614-20V-quads-on-16V-head

[stixy]

Ok so now i have it turning over but wont idle??? oh god, the petrol and lighter is looking good atm



Thanks matt, had a bit of a read but mine was already converted to ITB when i got it.

[Futo_gt86]

Where is the FPR vacuum hose hooked up to?
Do you have MAP senor?
If its a 16V MAP sensor ECU it will need one.
Is it running phat as, and sounds like huge cam?
Heavy smell of fuel?
If you don't have a good vacuum source for the Stock FPR is will fuel up big time.
When you disconnect the MAP it will just run rich as.

Its going to be a pig at idle with the Stock ECU and quads, it'll take some sorting and bit of patience

Keep at man, not to far off now!

EDIT: Be a good idea to wire up the check light to see what codes it on about, If there are major's try get it out of limp into open.

[stixy]

Where is the FPR vacuum hose hooked up to?
Do you have MAP senor?
If its a 16V MAP sensor ECU it will need one.
Is it running phat as, and sounds like huge cam?
Heavy smell of fuel?
If you don't have a good vacuum source for the Stock FPR is will fuel up big time.
When you disconnect the MAP it will just run rich as.

Its going to be a pig at idle with the Stock ECU and quads, it'll take some sorting and bit of patience

Keep at man, not to far off now!

EDIT: Be a good idea to wire up the check light to see what codes it on about, If there are major's try get it out of limp into open.

I have a vac sensor, yeah when it runs it sounds like it has massive cams in it, not a huge smell of fuel really??

really appreciate your help man =D

Ok so this might shed a little light,

I brought the engine from japan as a complete package (Motor, box, diff, tailshaft, loom, ECU and Apexi SAFC) so i was not 100% sure if the motor was running but was given a little collateral in cae it doesn't start.

i was told it was out of a running car when removed (Ex track car)


I will get onto this stuff today when i get up, again thanks Futo

Edit: forgot to mention, its not just a stock 16v with quads its has cams, n cam gears etc

[Futo_gt86]

If I had more time up my sleeve I'd come over and help you sort it.
The vacuum signal is going to be weak at idle with cams and quads, stock ECU is going to do some strange things.
I read you have Apexi SAFC, but didn't make sense to me as i thought they where for mass air flow meter (MAF) not MAP.
Can SAFC be used on MAP?
I haven't ever played with an SAFC....I understand how units like this work, but haven't ever seen SAFC in the flesh.
Was this ECU used with the SAFC, or did it have a different ECU?
Is SAFC still wired in?

[stixy]

If I had more time up my sleeve I'd come over and help you sort it.
The vacuum signal is going to be weak at idle with cams and quads, stock ECU is going to do some strange things.
I read you have Apexi SAFC, but didn't make sense to me as i thought they where for mass air flow meter (MAF) not MAP.
Can SAFC be used on MAP?
I haven't ever played with an SAFC....I understand how units like this work, but haven't ever seen SAFC in the flesh.
Was this ECU used with the SAFC, or did it have a different ECU?
Is SAFC still wired in?

Oh dude that would be amazing hahaha yeah im hearing ya about time =D

yeah this is how i brought the setup, with the SAFC and you can see where it was wired in, but there is still a few plugs i cant work out =/

I'm pretty sure it just lies to the ECU and makes it think its running rite?

[Futo_gt86]

I didn't know SAFC could be used with MAP, well there you go.
Yeah, it breaks into the signal from the sensor before the ECU, and you can adjust the value its send to the ecu by a certain %.
Is the SAFC powering up?
So, I take it there would be a wire from the MAP to the SAFC and then from the SAFC to the ECU sensor?
What have you done with the Vacuum nipples at either end of the quads, the ones you mentioned earlier?

EDIT: SAFC Instruction Manual
Scroll down list AE92 4AGE and AW11 MR2 4AGE
And list pressure senor
http://www.apexi-usa.com/manuals/electronics/safc_wiring.pdf

[stixy]

Yeah the SAFC is powered up, nah the only wires that are hooked up are TPS signal RPM 1 and 2 and Injector wire.

those nipples are free, i have not put anything running off them. that is just the 2 at either end and at the top of the quads yeah?

Yeah PR03 hmmm

[Futo_gt86]

temporarily BLOCK OFF those vacuum ports just to get it running, should help!
Can "T" and hook to brake boost later on.
Leave SAFC as it is, just make sure the earths are right.
If it was running like this beforehand, should be all sweet now.
I'm looking at SAFC wiring diagram and don't see where it says anything about injector wire?

What are the other plugs that you are talking about?

[Futo_gt86]

How did you go man?
I want to see vids of it running.

[stixy]

Hey man sorry i haven't replied but have been trying to get this f@#$ing thing started!!!!!

So answer to your question, No..... hahaha

may have it sorted???