4age Break in

[pauliee]

Hey there guys,

have just rebuild my smallport 4age- Hone, rings, bearings, etc etc.
Before I get it running, I wanted to know the process of running in the motor. Have done a fair amount of reading, and theres plenty of differing opinions, so thought it would be good to hear from some guys of here.

Also, I've been told to use full mineral oil. What should I be looking at? Read somewhere 5w-20/5w-30 or so is recommended for rebuilt 4age motors?

thanks.

[Matt]

Running in an engine (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/showthread.php/71543-Running-in-a-new-engine)

#1 - Make sure you have oil pressure , first turn the engine over by hand and then use the starter motor to gain this (disconnect fuel pump relay or take injector connectors off)
#2 - Once you have oil pressure , start the car to ensure there are no oil leaks or coolant leaks
#3 - Rev the car at idle for a bit , varying the revs constantly up to 3k
#4 - Go for a drive, load it up by going up / down hills and don't baby it

Agree on the mineral oils for the first 1k. The quickest way to start an argument around mechanics is to ask how to run in an engine usually, as everyone has differing opinions about what works and what doesn't. But keep the revs relatively low for the first 1000kms.

[davidgarratt]

Go a strait 30w base oil like mono 30 or similar :thumbup:

[Skylar]

I suppose "running in oil" would be a good choice for the first fill. Problem is the left over amount just sits on the shelf for years.

There was a decent thread about this years ago. I can't be bothered digging it up since I'm on iPod.

[Prime86]

Hey Paul

Matt is right on many points and about how a mechanic will tell you how to break in an engine...Lol.

1...Remove the coil lead and rocker covers, wind the engine over on the starter till you see oil up on the top end over the cams etc.
2...Put the covers etc back on and go for a start if oil is all good up top. Use the dash gauge if you don't have mechanical gauge to confirm oil pressure by some means. Shut engine down and check fluid levels.
3...Once the engine has fired and running would pay to check the timing with a timing light etc and give it a few small revs to see if it picks up revs quick or really sluggish a sign the timing is out.
4...If it seems all good allow engine to reach operational temp to make sure the thermostat opens etc you have no oil or water leaks.
5...If all is good and your happy with it take it for a drive, go easy on it for the first 10kms or so checking for any noises and no fluids leaking. After that mate I would drive it as normal, give it some stick back off let it cool a little and into it again. Don't baby it at all accept for that first 10kms just to make sure it's all good. Load the engine as much as possible to help bed it in.

As for oil choice don't use mineral oil, running in oil or a mono weight oil. Buy a good quality synthetic oil (I use Motul 300V). These days your top rings etc will be chrome you won't be using cast which you use mineral oil to help with the bedding in process. You want to use a good quality oil as not to damage the valve train and drive it as normal.

This is just my opinion sure there's plenty more its a personal choice of course but you won't have any probs running it in as suggested.

[timbo]

Change your filter after the 1k mark, not sure if I read it above. I'm sure I changed mine again at either 3-4k.

I ran mine in with heavy loading up hills, a trip to Toowoomba did the job. You'll know when the rings start to bed in (not such an oily smell) and then I just started driving it hard. After 18mths and who knows how many k's, I haven't had a single problem with my smallport.

[Skylar]

Running in a 4age (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/showthread.php/62196)

Breaking in a 4age (http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/showthread.php/23294)

Here's some previous threads.

[dove grey 64]

My mate who is a engine builder says the same thing, no need to baby it for ages, 10k's and thrash it. Change oil and filter then good to go. If it was well built you shouldn't have any issues

[Prime86]

Yeah changing the filter at 1k is a good idea for piece of mind. If you do make sure you tip the oil into a clean container so you can check for any metal etc.

[davidgarratt]

I remember selling a reco gem engine and the mechanic told me he wanted a 10w 30 for it and I said go a mono 30 , he laughed at me then an hour after I sent it he called and said it was smoking really bad. I sent down mono 30 and some new plugs and he ran that for 500ks then switched to his 10w 30 (still going strong ). End of the day oil will get past the rings because they haven't bedside in properly and same go's for bearing :)

[Matt]

I don't mind these threads coming up every few years as it is good to see what works for each person. Whilst it is important, I think there is generally a rule of thumb that if you follow it you can't really go wrong. I remember shitting myself the first time I saw a rebuilt engine start up, I thought it wasn't built properly because of the smoke.

[pauliee]

I don't mind these threads coming up every few years as it is good to see what works for each person. Whilst it is important, I think there is generally a rule of thumb that if you follow it you can't really go wrong. I remember shitting myself the first time I saw a rebuilt engine start up, I thought it wasn't built properly because of the smoke.

yeah apologies, i did do a solid search, but nothing would come up from this site.

Im in the same mindset, I rebuild the motor myself, took my time, got everything new and took no shortcuts. But still, do know that anxiety your talking about.

So the general consensus is to get it running correctly (timing, leaks etc), then nurse it for say the first ten kays, then just give it a decent run through. Load up the gears and head for some hills? But steer clear of giving it the clappers?

Give it 500-1000 kays, and drop the oil (new filter aswell).

Sounds good. Ill be buying oil tomorrow, so should I be running just synthetic stuff as you mentioned Prime86? I was told mineral stuff, but considering what you've said about the ring material, this sounds like the better of the two choices.

[Prime86]

Yeah Matt it's good when a thread like this comes up so people with experience in certain areas can pass on some knowledge and experiences onto the guys. I myself am an engine builder, I build and dyno engines on a daily basis.

Paul...I use Motul 300V 10/40 oil for my engines but it's on the extreme side for what you want. I would just go with a good priced oil like Penrite synthetic 10/40 or 10/30. Drop it at 1k and do your oil changes every 5k after that. As for driving with the new engine take it easy to check all is ok with the timing etc, load it up given it a quick squirt here and there but after about 1/2 hour I would be given it clappers as you say...Lol. It's prob a bit nicer than I would be on my own engine...Lol.

[johl]

from what i have read over the years about car and also motorbike sites there seem to be common traits between the manufacturer recommended run in and the so called "hard" run in procedure. they both say to vary the revs and also to use wide open throttle under load to seat the valves/rings. so using say fourth gear doing 40km/h hold your foot flat. the manufacturers tend to also want you to increase the rev range in intervals. for example only go up to 4000rpm for the first 1000km then 6000km for the next 1000km then your good to go.

it has been said that the run procedure has changed over the years due to the extremely close tolerances achieved in todays engine builds. that is why the "hard" run in procedure is alot more common. people that do this procedure say that the first couple of hundred km are vital to ensure a perfect seal. if you baby it they will not seal well at all.

here is some reading material if you are interested http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

[Jordain]

Get oil pressure, Limiter the #### out the driveway. Only way to do it.

[FoldKing86]

As mentioned, warm her up check timing, leaks etc, gentle for 10kms then hit a hwy at night, 2000rpm in 3rd wot too 6000rpm then off throttle and engine break back too 2000rpm and repeat, do that for about 200kms, then drive as normal. Continually check for leaks etc

If your calcs are correct and clearances are tight you will have no trouble.

Personally thou id use mineral oil till 2000kms, change at 1000kms thou.

[Matt]

prime86 you are about the 3rd engine builder that has recommended either 10w40 or 10w30 oil to run one in over the mineral oils...

You do notice when the rings do finally start to bed in though...

[timbo]

To be perfectly honest, after a some good loading for the first 500km I pretty much flogged the absolute shit out of it for the last 500km then dropped oil and ran my regular penrite. There are a few threads on this now but I would say they have dispelled some common myths and "trade secrets" of running an engine in. Shit goes wrong when things haven't been prepared right, take your time building the motor.

[pauliee]

so i got the thing ready to go today, oil in etc.

Now having issues with No Spark, and No injector pulses. Any ideas?

[Skylar]

Is the CAS plugged in? Does the ECU have power? Forgot to plug something in? Is the ECU even plugged in? Main negative lead to engine?

[Prime86]

How did you go with this, get it up and running?

Would have said for a few quick checks the earth lead to the back of the head or the dizzy plug.

[Matt]

Earth to inlet manifold not connected would be the first place i'd look.

If you haven't sorted it yet, flick me a pm and i'd be happy to have a quick look as i'll be heading to the beach tomorrow...

[pauliee]

yeah guys got it sorted, was a poor earth exactly on the manifold.

Matt ill get stuck in some more now, and if there are any issues ill hit ya with a pm. Thanks.

[Matt]

That "poor earth" is the heart of any 4age loom...

[Prime86]

Did you get to take this for a drive or still ironing out a few problems?

[Sam-Q]

of note I know someone who was suggested to use the light load thing with his fresh engine. The whole thing had to get torn down because the bores where glazed.

Matt is on the money here- use 3/4 load on and off with medium revs in 15min intervals and then just use decent load from then on.

[slide86]

dont let it sit and idle either......this will glaze bores also

[pauliee]

hey guys, so after a few delays, (newyears etc) finally got the motor in today and running.

Running like a charm, in terms of performance. At this stage I've only done 20 kays in it. Blue smoke is intermittently blowing out the exhaust with the occasional backfire. Otherwise its perfect.

Am running 10w-30 (Penrite plus ten shit).

[timbo]

That oil, to me, is too light to run a motor in let alone running it normally. A rebuilt motor will make some smoke but I think you'll be burning some much more with that weight oil.

I used some Repco red bottle stuff, full mineral and 20w - something. Check your dipstick and make sure there is enough oil in the sump too, but I'd get rid of that oil all together.

[Matt]

Timbo how many engines have you ran in?

The oil is fine, don't panic...


Yeah Matt it's good when a thread like this comes up so people with experience in certain areas can pass on some knowledge and experiences onto the guys. I myself am an engine builder, I build and dyno engines on a daily basis.

Paul...I use Motul 300V 10/40 oil for my engines but it's on the extreme side for what you want. I would just go with a good priced oil like Penrite synthetic 10/40 or 10/30. Drop it at 1k and do your oil changes every 5k after that.

[timbo]

A few now. 10 just seems a little low for a run in or normal use for a 4A. I hope the motor warms up quickly.

As a forum, I was trying to help, now I'll wait until all the "pm identified" experts weigh in on this question, no pun intended. Your post doesn't seem to help the original question, all it does is quote some private digest to counter argue my post with out offering any advice or thought to the question of excessive oil burning.

- AE86DC Timbo out -

[Prime86]

!0W-30 or 10W-40 is fine to run in a 4age, I run my own on 10W-40 I wouldnt have suggest it other wise. If you check the manufactures specs I think you will find they suggest an even thinner oil 5w-30 as most Jap cars do.

As for the oil burning or smoke on Decel only, would suggest a valve stem seal issue or breather problem I guessing. I dont believe it smokes at all on Acel which would suggest a bottom end issue or wrong oil selection etc etc. At such low kms I would do a few small checks and run it longer around the 200kms, see what happens before we panic the bloke.