Circuit Open Relay(COR) Part number 85910-12080 question

[Futo_gt86]

Howdy,

I got a COR for fuel pump, Part number 85910-12080, it has 5 pins, but connector has 2 wires coming out of 12V IGN and 2 wires coming out of Fuel pump 12V

http://imageshack.us/a/img191/7051/img0077jx.jpg


http://imageshack.us/a/img41/6136/img0078oi.jpg

NOTE - Engine / ECU in question is 1UZFE LS400 motor in RN85R 2WD Hilux Conversion, not 4AGE

Didn't even notice until unsheathed the wires
Never seen plug like this, spose to be from AE101?
Do I still run with usual wiring instructions?

White/Black - Wires to STA - Starter/ECU Start Signal. X
EDIT: White/Black is earth
Black - Wires to body earth - Wire to closest earth point.
EDIT: Black is to STA
White/Red - Wires to EFI Relay - +12v Ignition Switched power (Run through a suitably sized fuse, 10A is usually fine, but depends on your fuel pump).

Green - Wires to engine run signal - "FC" pin on ECU. Or if you are running an AFM engine, this wire should connect to the AFM.
EDIT: IF Motor is AFM / MAF and ECU has FC pin, wire Green to FC Pin

Blue/Black - Wire to fuel pump positive - Gives power to your fuel pump.

Cant find a thing on goggle or search.
Also, Why 2 wires from these pins?

[Matt]

Yeah definately from an ae101.

2 wires to the fuel pump, cos one goes to the diag box FP pin. This is used by mechanics to jumper the fuel pump directly for diagnostics / troubleshooting.

Second wire out of the IGN is also power to the ecu for +B ignition power when used in the ae101 configuration.

[Futo_gt86]

Cheers Matt,
So other than that, its the same? as in
Black is Earth
White/Black is STA
Reason I ask is I came across Toymods thread which has thrown me.
http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/tech-conversions/18471-your-friend-circuit-opening-relay-how-wire-fuel-pumps-3.html#post1523844

[Sprinter86]

Correct me if im wrong, but i was sure the white/black is earth and the straight thick black (or in some cases black/white) was STA signal?

[Matt]

Correct me if im wrong, but i was sure the white/black is earth and the straight thick black (or in some cases black/white) was STA signal?

If white is the primary colour with a black stripe it is definitely earth... and the black the starter wire.

Just hook it up directly to the battery to double check, you won't break the relay.

[Futo_gt86]

I been going of this
http://www.rollaclub.com/wiki/index.php?title=Circuit_Opening_Relay_Wiring
Between toymods and RC i'm crossed up - I'll have to check it.

[Matt]

That is wrong white/ black is definitely an earth.

Guide I wrote on twincam is here http://forum.twincam.org.au/topic/1741-toyota-fuel-open-circuit-relay-4age/#entry29602

Following Toyota standard wiring colours earths are always either brown or white/black. Thinking about it though the relay would probably still work as it should if they were reversed

[Golberg]

Matt is correct, but the relay would still work with those 2 wires back to front.

You'd only mess things up if you swapped any of the other wires.

[Futo_gt86]

OK, I switched them around.
Next question,
I have LS400 MAF (Alloy Body type) and am running COR relay for fuel pump.
I need to know which wire on the MAF to splice into for the COR.

E1
E2
THA Air Temp
KS Air flow meter
VC Throttle position sensor Air flow meter

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/7/7/7/6/506643.jpg
Don't have multimeter to check wire vs flap, but I think i'm looking for switched earth when flap opens, just not sure how to read the above to know what that one is?

EDIT
This is in reference of LS400 1UZ ECU WITH MAF
Note* taken from
http://oldschool.co.nz/2011/forum/index.php?/topic/30736-how-to-wire-up-a-1uz-engine-vvti-and-non-vvti/#entry797981
How to Wire up a 1UZ engine (VVTI and non-VVTI)

FC Fuel Pump controller - you dont need this wire, this is 'half the speed wire' it sends a signal to the fuel controller ECU to half the pumps speed at idle, this does not trip a relay, the output I measured today was 0.005 or 0.003 volts not enough to trip a normal relay.

FPR Fuel Pump Relay,
... (NOT A Core Wire) –FPR - Across Fuel Pump Relay, - this does not trip a relay, the output I measured today was 0.004 volts not enough to trip a normal relay.

One installer said:
FPC/FPR would control fuel pump computer. They are to be inspected with oscilloscope, you will find 5v pwm signal there. There are ways of setting these outputs to control your pump without stock fuel computer

An uncomfortable error:

One One guy emailed me and said:
I wired the FPR (Pin1 on 16pin connector) trigger into the fuel relay which was fine in the event truck had an accident or stalled fuel relay is shut down. However I had also wired in the FC (Pin 4 on 16 pin connector) trigger in the circuit open relay thinking that the "Fuel Controller" was required, by only having a single speed pump in the hilux when the ecu triggered FC in theory to by pass the resistor and pump at high speed i was in fact cutting out the fuel pump completely. Only an issue when under load.... and when is a 1uz fe not under load?? you would have to be a nanna. Trick for young or not so young wannabe car conversion experts like myself. Hence the reason it would rev slowly up to 6500 rpm but when punched – Death

^ preffer to boycott FC and FPR altogether and go straight from source.

[Golberg]

Why are you triggering the COR off the AFM?

I know that some other manufacturers do this, but I wasn't aware of Toyota doing this.

Does your ECU not have a FP trigger directly?

[Futo_gt86]

Sorry, read Edit
Never done MAF/COR before.
LS400 used funky fuel pump controller set up, massive (and expensive) heat sink looking gizmo which I don't fully understand or have, so went for COR.
Just asking the question as the last bit got me jumping.
But in saying that, If I stay clear of FC pin on this ECU (half speed pump) and use FPR to trigger COR it should work?
The write up states FPR won't trigger "normal" relay, hence why I was looking at MAF directly.
Is COR lower voltage the "normal" relay?

[Golberg]

I understand better now, I didn't realise it was a 1UZ you were wiring.

The information on that website is unclear and I'm almost 100% sure its wrong.

So you've got your FC and FPR pins. (This is how Toyota normally does fuel pump wiring with those pins)

FC triggers the COR its a ground trigger (unlike the dopes on that website seem to think, I don't know why they'd think it would be a + trigger, basically nothing on an ECU is. That's why they are seeing 0.004 volts, thats 0v = negative)

When FC is triggered it allows power to get to the fuel pump through a resistor (for low fuel consumption states, idle etc)

FPR triggers a separate relay (negative trigger again surprise surprise) that bypasses the resistor and gives full fuel pressure.

If you want to avoid using multiple speeds on the fuel pump just use the FC trigger and ignore the FPR

[Golberg]

Don't try to trigger a fuel pump off the AFM, its not designed for it and you'll stuff it.

[Golberg]

I've simplified a random Toyota diagram for an ECU that has FC and FPR pins on it so you can see how they'd usually be wired:

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/8/0/506644.jpg

I can't say for sure that this is correct for the 1UZ ECU, but I see no reason why Toyota would do it differently for one car when this is how they usually do it.

[Futo_gt86]

OK, I'm listening, and referencing to other info that I have come across.
I originally intended to use FC , as on previous MAP engines this is what I have done, and the ECU pin out diagram I have for this LS400 ECU says FC = COR
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7FYCjMZX9Rtek5hektPSXBqT00/edit

But, why then does Hen state on Toymods Your friend the COR (http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/tech-conversions/18471-your-friend-circuit-opening-relay-how-wire-fuel-pumps.html) to use FC pin for MAP, or direct to AFM for MAF

Quote
"The running coil is triggered differently on AFM and MAP engines. For AFM there is a contact in the air flow meter which closes as soon as the flap opens at all (meaning the engine is sucking air, so must be running). For MAP there is a pin (usually FC) on the ECU which is earthed whenever the engine is running."

And
"If you aren't sure which pins on the AFM to connect to then they are easy to find with a multimeter. Just find two which are an open circuit when the flap is closed and then go to zero ohm as soon as the flap is opened. They also tend to be the two pins at one end of the connector."

With this diagram?

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/7/7/7/6/506660.jpg

[Futo_gt86]

So you can see here how I reached my question of which wire to use a MAF connector.
I'll use FC, as this makes the most sense to me.
Hen feel free to chime in on this...

[Futo_gt86]

I understand better now, I didn't realise it was a 1UZ you were wiring.

The information on that website is unclear and I'm almost 100% sure its wrong.

So you've got your FC and FPR pins. (This is how Toyota normally does fuel pump wiring with those pins)

FC triggers the COR its a ground trigger (unlike the dopes on that website seem to think, I don't know why they'd think it would be a + trigger, basically nothing on an ECU is. That's why they are seeing 0.004 volts, thats 0v = negative)

When FC is triggered it allows power to get to the fuel pump through a resistor (for low fuel consumption states, idle etc)

FPR triggers a separate relay (negative trigger again surprise surprise) that bypasses the resistor and gives full fuel pressure.

If you want to avoid using multiple speeds on the fuel pump just use the FC trigger and ignore the FPR

So, hang on, in reference to BOLD font above, what about MREL for main EFI fuse, I followed this guide to wire the entire vehicle, in which it states
Pin Number 24 MREL - EFI Relay (turn on)
... (NOT A Core Wire) – MREL EFI Relay (turn on) - this wire comes from an ECU PIN and it goes ro (12+) the EFI replay to turn it on,
... e.g. the relay that provides power to the injectors (only) - turns off when engine not running, I always use this for safety reasons.

If MREL is Neg trigger, then this is incorrect... Or is this one of the exclusion to your reference of "Basically nothing on ECU is" 12V+

[Golberg]

The FC wire shouldn't run to the AFM at all. FC is triggered by the computer when it detects rotation on the crank angle sensor.

SOME cars have a switch in the AFM for a fuel pump but if you've got an FC pin, then use that on its own to trigger the COR.

If your AFM wiring is the same as that diagram on the other page, then there is definitely nothing to trigger a fuel pump in it.

I will concede, MREL is usually a 12v+ trigger, so that is correct.

As a side note, the reason for previous statement:
ECU's primarily use NPN transistors, NPN transistors switch 0V signals. From a vehicle circuitry perspective it makes far more sense to switch as many things with 0V as possible. It decreases the amount of 12V running through wires everywhere which lessens the chances of a short occuring. But it also suits big fuse/relay box layouts better. It also decreases the overall wiring required because 0V can be picked up anywhere on the metal body not requiring an additional wire just to supply a switch.

[Golberg]

Ah I think I understand where the confusion lies now, I just read through that Toymods document.

I think what it really should say is if your engine is MAP then use the FC pin. If your car is AFM then use the AFM to switch the fuel pump if there is no FC pin.

[Futo_gt86]

OK, awesome.
Thanks heaps for all your help here Golberg! and the extra info, makes a lot of sense.
Have COR wired to FC pin, and MREL connected to 86 pin on Relay, 87 to injectors.
I'm pretty close now, got stuff in the way over weekend, but there is slightest chance I might have this thing actually running late sunday avro/night. I'll post up vids when and if.

Tell you one thing, the neighbors are going to know about it with no exhaust!