86 won't kick over

[Fallen Angel]

Hey guys

so changed my alternator to the right side of my 4age and went to start my car but won't kick over at all. So I tried to jump it with another car but won't still won't kick, fuel pump won't prime ether but I do have lights.... Anyone have any ideas starter motor maybe ??? Any ideas
thanks

[Matt]

Check your earths...

[Fallen Angel]

Earths seem fine but I will check them again tomorrow

[slide86]

does it crank?

[Fallen Angel]

Narr nothing at all

[slide86]

I agree with Matt, sounds like there is an earth problem.

Check the main fuses on the +ve battery terminal (if you have this setup).

[Fallen Angel]

It was a 4ac converted to a 4age so yer I will check earths tomorrow problem with that is it started before I changed the alternator to te proper side. Alternator was orignally on the extractor side with a custom bracket all I have done since it ran is extend the alternator wires to the intake side where the alternator sits now so I am not sure so not sure about earths as I haven't touched any since it ran??

[slide86]

Are you sure you didnt earth out any of the alternator wiring when you extended the loom? Shorting any of these wires would have blown fuses.

Unless of course you disconnected the battery before you started working on it.

[Fallen Angel]

Yer battery was not connected when I did it checked all the fuses there all fine so not sure ay

[Matt]

Put a jumper cable from the batt to the starter casing or even lift hook on the motor As a quick test

[Fallen Angel]

Righto so once agin this site won't let me upload photos so will just have to explain .... There is a big circle ish clip that comes off the starter motor it has two red wires coming out of it one is red/black other is red/blue where are they ment to be connected to as they weren't connected to anything and where running into my cabin ???

[blair]

www.photobucket.com (http://www.photobucket.com)

Upload them to there, then post links in here, its free :)

[Fallen Angel]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/8/2/6/8/507385.jpg (http://s1313.photobucket.com/user/Dirty_Moose/media/image_zps777ba762.jpg.html)

hope that worked

[slide86]

There are only 2 wires that are on the starter wire.......

- one main large gauge wire that goes from the +ve of the battery to the starter

- a black with white trace that is the trigger wire that goes onto the male terminal on the starter and will plug into that plug you are showing.......you can see the black with white wire on the plug where the starter wire joins.

Im almost 100% that those two wires are the reverse switch wires. Out of interest, is this car auto?

[Fallen Angel]

no its a manual...
yer all the starter wires are intack and going to where they are ment to from what i can see but these two red wires (red/blue red/black) where running into the cabin to near the ecu i traced them back a bit and they go into under where the dash is but i am not sure what they were ment to connect to to begin with dose any one know where they are ment to go to from that connection

[Fallen Angel]

right so update found a few other fuses that have gone and a few loose ish earths so they are all fixed now... it now wants to turn over but wont fire thoughts... pretty sure i am getting spark will double check and u can hear the fuel pump priming so not sure

[Tore]

That big oval plug is the firewall plug yup, Black & White (in some cases just black) large gauge wire on the plug is your starter (as you already know), 2 small gauge red wires on firewall plug is your reverse lights.
Usually Yellow w/black-stripe is for Oil pressure gauge
Usually Yellow w/green-stripe is for Water temp gauge
Grey or Black is for Tachometer (which is black+orange on my AE86 cluster).

There should be a wire on the firewall plug; 12v power for the injectors/coils/ECU memory, in my case its orange large gauge on opposite side of (I.e, straight across from) the starter wire.
This goes on your ignition where theres constant 12v power when car is turned off (Blue w/red-stripe on my car).
But it almost seems like yours is cut off? Can you provide a few more pics of that plug and show us all the wires currently on it? :)

Do you have a firewall connector for the body harness too? Cuz if you do then all you`d have to bother with is make sure the corresponding wires line up on both connectors (And if they dont: Cut and splice) and voilÃ#..

Edit: I noticed a 3-pin relay clearly missing in your main engine bay fusebox..

[Fallen Angel]

Ok cool I will get some more photos today and put them up for u

[Fallen Angel]

ok so i am giving up now so chasing a 4age 16v loom thats not been hacked at so i can just plug it in the more i uncover shit the more hacked at this loom is which i dont understand cause it was running before i extended the alternator wires but what ever so chasing a loom if anyone has one

[Fallen Angel]

Ok first off
URL=http://s1313.photobucket.com/user/Dirty_Moose/media/image_zpsf14f85e5.jpg.html]http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/8/2/6/8/507531.jpg[/URL]
i put a 4 pin in but it doesn't have anything coming out of it from that pointing the fuels box

URL=http://s1313.photobucket.com/user/Dirty_Moose/media/image_zpsd55c675f.jpg.html]http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/8/2/6/8/507532.jpg[/URL]


URL=http://s1313.photobucket.com/user/Dirty_Moose/media/image_zps402a8f57.jpg.html]http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/8/2/6/8/507533.jpg[/URL]

thats a better look at that plug no orange wire coming threw at all only wire that looks cut is a thin yellow/green wire that looks like they ran into the after market water temp sensor... I really have no idea as I said before I changed the alternator it ran fine

[Tore]

Just slam the 4-pin in anyway, the fusebox aint built like you`d think at first glance (I`ve had a good look inside one), you can ignore the plastic-covered 3-pin contact though and probably you can leave that other jumped 4-pin as well.

K, all those wires are matching up to eachother, double check the plug on the engine harness too, if theres a wire on that that doesnt exist on your body harness then its worth finding out :)

Seems to be in order though, those red & black wires with black dots are unknown to me as well (I`ve seen them too but never figured out what the hell they are for), toyota wiring diagram kinnda sucks at wiring colors (I.e they`ll sometimes be completely a different color than the diagram states :P ) so I can`t find the ones for my lights (Manual states red-blue for left hand light, red-lightblue for right hand light, but I see red-green and shit :P )

But you should have a wire for ECU, Coil and Ignitor..
This sorta stuff is out of my league but: does the car at all sound like the plugs are sparking?

Cuz if it aint then I think you have to find the wire for ECU, coil and ignitor still, if you had a diagram manual this should not be an issue finding :)

Also, if fuses and relays are dying despite having earthed engine block (Somewhere close to starter is a good idea for example) and engine head (Usually at the back of it some where) it would be a good idea to check if engine harness is earthed.
Check from ECU terminals and out, if theres no grounding eye-let`s anywhere thats an issue.
I do agree though, you had this car running, then switched alternator side and voilÃ# engine is not working all of a sudden..

[Fallen Angel]

mmmm ok i will have a look again tomorrow make sure that i havent missed a ground and will have a search for a wiring diagram to track those leads down and let u know how i go tomorrow thanks for the help again... just trying to remember if anything else was moved when i did the alternator but i dont think it was so might change some relays as well in case i fried one of them maybe not sure

[Tore]

Use a multimeter to find out if relay is fried instead of throwing them in the bin without knowing whether theyre toast, in particular because if the relay isnt even getting power that means the fault is not with the relay!

There should be a diagram for the 3-4 types of Toyota relays in foot well and engine bay fusebox, with normal off the shelf 20/25/30amp relays you get in hardware/car stores its like this: 30 is from power source (i.e battery), 86 is switch (Like if its connected to ignition), 85 is earth (From relay to earth on car body/Engine block) and 87 is whatever receives the power (I.e fuel pump/instrument panel/whatever)
sorta like this http://www.vstrom.info/vsri-gallery/gallery/d/78357-2/fusestrip.jpg

so should be a similar diagram for the Toyota 3-pin, 4-pin and 5-pin relays as well, basically you make up a little circuit that you can use to test relays, connect a power source to relay 12v source pin (I.e 30) and a wire from power source to a switch, then to 86, then connect multimeter on relay output pin (In this case 87) and the other cable to earth, if multimeter shows no output when you test the switch with battery power on then you know its fried, if not the fault might be found on the relay that powers the relay you just tested.. Or maybe even in the wiring itself (Burnt wire or bad earth)
If you havent got a multimeter, get one..
Also did you make sure that when you cut and spliced the alternator wires, that the wires go the same way? I.e not alternator ground on alternator output and so forth :)

[Fallen Angel]

It runs :) timing was so fucked it wasn't funny so it runs now getting power to everything thanks for every thing tore

[cooter]

Check the 60 amp fuse that's on your battery positive terminal. When mine blew it cut everything out, engine wouldn't start etc. I did this after changing alternator and its wiring.


edit: my bad didn't see your last post. How was ur timing ratshit if the motor ran fine before n you've only changed the alt??

[Fallen Angel]

Yer man it was blown but all good now it runs

[Fallen Angel]

Had a dude play with a few things and he pulled the cam gears off to put the backing plate on and then put it back together wrong grrr

[sundee]

better check that timing again then

[Tore]

Well done :)
And as sundee said, check the timing!