4AGE ST20V Ke70 Razorback ECU and Loom running rough. Help!?

[Plelz]

Car - 1984 Ke70 sedan with 4age silvertop 20v

motor / part in question - Razorback ecu, loom and coils (four in one block, says GM on it).

problem - Engine starts but sounds like the timing/firing order is out. Backfiring, running on less than 4 cyls.

occurs/started when (if applicable)- ever since I have tried to run the engine, loom and ecu.

personal situation (if applicable)- I bought the engine, gearbox, Razorback ecu and loom from a bloke in Victoria. He said that it ran in his corolla when he pulled it out (can never be sure if this was actually the case). He said it had a rough tune on it for a st20v. Just trying to find out where my problem lies. Also, does anyone in SA know their way around 4age's with a Razorback loom. This thing has been idle for so long. Pretty keen to give someone some cash to get it running right/tuned so I can finally drive it. Help?

[Plelz]

Gone from having a little bit of spark to none at all. Power is reaching the daewoo coils but none of the plugs are sparking. I'll invest in new coils and see what happens...

SO fuckin close to setting this thing on fire and buying a running silvia or something.

[Skylar]

Buy adaptronic with a plug in patch harness or any other ecu that has laptop connectivity and go from there. Easiest thing to do.

Just been outside screwing around trying to get my car running with an aftermarket ecu. Having that digital dashboard and test functions makes it so easy to diagnose and figure out the problem.

If you really want to stick with the razorback thinger go and buy a benchtop oscilloscope and figure out where the signal is missing. The handheld ones aren't reliable enough. They only work sometimes.

[Matt]

^^ Best advice...

Anthony from kaizen can sort you out with a plug n play loom

[Plelz]

Bought new daewoo coils. Plugged leads in and turned the key. Now it does not run at all. Just sneezes out of the throttle bodies and fires one cylinder when the key is turned to off.

Seems like an injector or timing issue. I want to see if I can get this working before I give in and buy a new set up.

Some of the prices I have been quoted for looms and ECUs makes me think I could go on gumtree and buy a running 4age ke70 for similar money. Frustrating.

[davidgarratt]

Do you have spark at all ? And is the distributor in the right place ? Are the leads on the right order? Check everything before giving up on the ecu ay

[Tbo92]

If it's anything like my razorback loom check the connections plug on the cas or converted dizzy. Had similar problem and had wire loose

[Slimer86]

1342 firing order?
Check crank index position and correct firing sequence.
Is dizzy plug ok?
Does razorback need teeth removed from distributor like some wolf 3d ecu's?
Have you got a manual for it?
Called razorback?

[Slimer86]

Also check earth going to tge igniter

[Plelz]

Thanks for the help/input guys. I really appreciate it :)

I will check all of these things on the weekend.

Also... igniter??? :S

[davidgarratt]

If your running a Daewoo coil pack you don't use the std igniter because its built-in to the coil

[Plelz]

I thought as much. Nice

Plugs are sparking but it is intermittent. May be a dirty plug on the CAS.

Also, on the daewoo coils the plug lead connectors are labelled 1-2, on the first block of 2 then, 3-4, on the second block of 2. Do these numbers correspond to the cylinder numbers? Or, are these just the coil numbers?

[ae86 slide]

I just got rid of a setup exactly like yours. My deawoo coil packs were numbered 2-4-3-1, that's looking at them front on. Hope that helps mate.

[Plelz]

Having a look at it today.

No spark whatsoever. Coil packs are receiving power.

Is the CAS meant to be receiving power from the ECU while the key is on or cranking the engine? Because mine isn't on any four of the wires. Does this mean that there is something wrong with the ecu?

My coil packs are numbered 1-4-3-2 when looking at them from the front.

Cheese and rice....

[Skylar]

The CAS is not meant to have any power, ever.

Get an oscilloscope and check for a signal on the IGt wire.

Do the injectors do anything while you're cranking the motor/spinning the CAS?

[Plelz]

IGt wire??

It is definitely getting fuel. But will have to check the injectors more closely. The injectors don't have any effect on the spark? Surely not.

[Skylar]

ECU needs a trigger signal before it will do anything. If it has a trigger signal, then it will fire the injectors and coil accordingly. Just making sure your "spark" problem isn't a CAS problem.

The IGt wire, the ignition trigger wire. If it has that then, it's a dwell issue, wrong firing order, or your timing map/distributor is way off.

[davidgarratt]

Daewoo-lanos-coil-wiring
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=74835
This is the wiring for the coil if you don't think the coil is working tap the signal wire (coil side only) on 12v and it will fire the coil. You have 2 trigger (signal) wires that should be hooked up. Also did you check the controller that in coil options that its set to daewoo coils ??

[Plelz]

Thanks for continuing to help me out with this guys. As you can probably tell I am pretty out of my depth with this stuff.

Skylar - Silly question... How do you check if there is a trigger signal?

Yeah, it is set to Daewoo coils on the controller.

I know that it is getting power at the pink wire. I will have to check the signal wires tomorrow.

[davidgarratt]

All good , to check your cas just pull it out and spin it and you should hear the injectors firing if not that might be where the problem lies . You can do the same thing with the trigger wires too

[Skylar]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/0/2/5/539193.jpg

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/0/2/5/514056.jpg
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/2/0/2/5/514056.jpg

That's me checking that the ecu is receiving a signal. You can do the same with the signal to the ignitor/coil. You can see there's a crappy wave on the screen but enough to trigger the ecu.

[Plelz]

Okay... when I turn the key to the On position it fires cylinder 1. When the engine is cranking there is no ignition (spark plugs aren't firing).

CAS is way too close to the firewall to take out. I think... Plus, freakin out about putting it back in the right position. Don't want to create another problem.

[Plelz]

Took the CAS out spun it and no spark or noise from the injectors.

[davidgarratt]

Ok now just need to borrow one or buy one to test but it sounds like a faulty cas , but first check all wiring going to the cas but yeah I recon that'd be it

[Plelz]

SO. Switched a wire from the CAS at the ecu end (swapped the red for black in the signal wire). Spun the CAS and the injectors and plugs are firing! Fuck yea!

[davidgarratt]

I just got all misty eyed lol
good work man.

[Plelz]

Alright. It runs awesome/revs etc but does not idle...

What to do??

[Plelz]

Cheers man :D

The engine starts to struggle/stutter around 1200 and 1300 rpm. Just wants to stall.

I rev the engine up to about 4500 rpm and then take my foot off the accelerator and it takes a long time to drop back down the rev range. Then when it gets down to 1200- 1300 it splutters and dies.

ISCV has only one wire attached and the other (blue with white strip and red dots is just hangin loose.

???????? :(

[davidgarratt]

Has it been tuned for your engine ?

[Plelz]

I was told that it was when I bought it. Has all of the values in there. No way to know for sure.

Been looking through the internets and everyone seems to think it is an O2 sensor, ISCV or vacuum issue. I don't have an O2 sensor, all of my vacuum lines are hooked up but my ISCV has a wire hanging loose. Problem?

[davidgarratt]

Nah O2 sensor won't affect it much, try resetting your tps setting and check when it physically makes contact on the throttles.... That was a big problem with mine lol

[Plelz]

I set my TPS using the hand controller as per the manual. Values are 70 closed and 128 full open throttle.

What do you mean physically makes contact? Are you saying that my throttle bodies could be fully closing and suffocating the engine??

[davidgarratt]

Nope I meant that as soon as the throttle opens it makes contact with the sensor. Mine was off a couple of mm and I was chasing it for ages

[davidgarratt]

Is it running on tps only or is it also running a mass afm?

[Plelz]

Live values change on the TPS reading when I manually open and close the throttle (at the throttle bodies). I tried manually holding the throttle open at a steady rpm. Like I said. Only runs smoothly down to 1200 ish rpm. Under that it slows to a stall.

Also no mass afm. Open trumpets etc

[Slimer86]

Check the manual for tps calibration setting.
MoTeC and microtech is 0 (or very close to) closed throttle, and 100% at full open.
I assume razor back is like this too.

[Plelz]

On the hand controller it doesn't read in percentages. It just has a number. Should I adjust the TPS so it says 0 on with no throttle applied?

[davidgarratt]

Did you sort your idle issue?

[Plelz]

Nah I havent. Tried different firing orders, didn't fix the issue. All vacuum hoses seem to be connected correctly. Not sure what it could be.

[Plelz]

I removed the pcv valve from between the itbs and the brake master and it fixed the issue fir a while. Although it idled at about 1900 rpm. Now its not idling anymore :(

when I turn the key the engine turns once, backfires and the starts. Sits at about 1800- 1900 rpm for about 20 seconds and then slowly falls down the rev range and stalls. Wtf?

[Plelz]

Sorted it! Freakin bottom pipe of the iscv valve was not blocked. Jammed my thumb in it and the revs dropped down to 850 and it idles like a boss. Just need to fine tune the timing and she'll be sweet. Skids soon :D