AE86 VS MX5 whats better to learn in?

[theknickerbocker]

Ok so i wanna buy a light weight rwd and ive narrowed it down to an 1990 mx5 or an ae86. id be doing a 16v conversion, installing a tseries disc to disc and probably go with some moderately priced coilovers (bc) and the mx5 would be getting the torsen diff upgrade (not sure how familiar everyone is with mx5s) and some yellowspeed coilovers and prob some xforce extractors to give me a little more power. in my opinion after those mods the cars would be pretty equal but im wondering what car would be better to learn to drive/master rwd in? (i currently drive a pig of a lancer and no i haven't been watching too much initial d haha)

the only downside for the 86 in my opinion is the price.

[Konakid]

price and cost of panels lights etc if you crash it.

[theknickerbocker]

are they similar to drive or?

[Big T]

They are slightly different to drive. I've owned both. Yes they are both rwd and light but there are still subtle differences. I would suggest getting the nb8b mx5 instead of the na6.

The mx5 is a more clinical car to drive. I did not have many mods on the car so can't compare to heavily modified ones.

The 86 is a far rawer driving experience. The car is more rigid and requires more driver input to drive. That said, my 86 is massively modified.

Either car will be great to learn in. Get into both of them yourself and drive. You may prefer one over the other.

[dove grey 64]

Id say they are similar.
Cost wise id say your better off like this... mx5/ae71> > ae86
You could build or buy a ae71 with a 4age for around the same price as a mx5.
Ke70/ae71 weigh less then a ae86, and are more replaceable. Id go for one of them, but the mx5 is still a good option

[Matt]

Don't waste your money on bc coilovers , get kyb and king springs if you were thinking of bc's. There are much better options out there for only a few $$$ more

Ae86's are becoming harder to find, ke70 and ae71 is following suit too, but they are also good options if an ae86 is costing too much.

And you can never watch too much initial d. Do you want to drift or just be quick at grip? Fwd grip is fun

[*E7*]

a MX5 is so good out of the factory you will feel like you are rwd master already. it feels twitchier to drift stock standard than an ae71 imho.

if you wish to master rwd, I would suggest starting in an underpowered ke70 with a welded diff, then making subtle changes to suspension and power. as you make the changes you'll see how the car reacts differently.

practice at slow speeds on slippery surfaces, then build up to faster speeds on slippery surfaces. then go to slow speeds on grippy surfaces, before trying high speed on grippy surfaces.

paddocks or large expanses of grass/ concrete are best to start on.

don't start out on the street trying to drift, even if it's industrial areas that aren't populated. gutters will munch your rims and suspension...

good luck whichever car you choose, but i'd be going almost any 70's or 80's rwd jap car to begin with, then buying another car later once you've had some practice.

[Matt]

^^^ is great advice...

Allot of guys build 300kw drift pigs, have power to get outta any situation and never really learn how to drive properly

[*E7*]

I forgot to mention try your hand at motorkhana and autocross, real cheap motorsport and a safe way to throw your car around.

check out cams.com.au, www.vicclubautocrossseries.com, www.motorkhanavic.com.au, and tccav.org.au for info.

[McLEVIN]

I think an ae86 is great to learn in...get one with no power steering.

[theknickerbocker]

thanks for all the input. id never even considered a ke70 so ill look into it. id want to learn how to drive quickly so yeah the car would be for grip... yeah fwd grip is fun and very predictable but my lancers a pig and ive destroyed the brakes (to much LFB haha) so i doubt ill get another fwd.

would yellowspeed coilovers for the mx5 be better than bc coilovers?

[Jimmee1990]

BC are pretty average, never heard of Yellowspeed. Even just a decent set of springs with some KYB or Bilstein dampers would be grippier than BC's.

[Delazy]

Yellow speed are cheap/nasty generic rubbish...BC coilovers at least have a known quality to them...but as above quality shocks and springs are likely to do the job

[theknickerbocker]

Ill probably get a ke70

cheers guys.

Anyone got anymore tips on learning to drive rwd quickly?

[dove grey 64]

vehicle balance, steering and throttle control.
enjoying yourself is key too. listen to eurobeat while driving lol.
watch more initial d and touge showdown vids

[AJPS]

Anyone got anymore tips on learning to drive rwd quickly?

drive the car in a variety of situations

tarmac, dirt, wet etc

[ae8zn6]

My advice would be to not expect to master RWD qucikly... or any other form of driving 'quickly' for that matter. Getting better at driving requires a lot of seat time in a wide variety of different situations, as Dave said above.

[Rice86]

what are you learning? how to drive? how to drift? how to grip?

im guessing drifting? MX5 is a better and easier car (logic) in this day and age, money better spent
AE86 is fantastic (personal opinion) but comes at a very expensive price

MX5 is gutless compared to a bigport AE86
MX5 is easier to go faster because of said above, better and easier in the day and age
AE86 is rewarding, because its shit, old, initial D special.

same same, if you can't drive, no car will make you a better driver.

[AJPS]

same same, if you can't drive, no car will make you a better driver.

unless you have bad habits or cant learn from mistakes i think all driving makes you better

and driving a variety of cars, fwd, small, big, gay, cool, over powered, under powered all help

make mistakes, test the limits, and drive different places - dont just learn one road and youll become well rounded

i know some guys who have only drifted at mallala and they look a bit silly in the hills

[McLEVIN]

Take your car to a defensive driving course they hold at a race track and learn how your car handles and find its limits in a safe controlled environment. And how to recover from certain situations. ..I wish I did this this first...an ae86 can be a very expensive driving lesson

[dove grey 64]

^^ good advice. Do as many driver training things as you can do

[theknickerbocker]

Nah dont wanna learn to drift I just wanna drive faster if that makes sense. So grip is the fastest (actually I think 5 percent slip is the fastest or something like that)... so id be learning grip I guess.

[McLEVIN]

Also if hills driving. Stick within the lane to begin with if you can keep your car within the lines you can keep your car on the road. A line is more forgiving if you fuck up rather than a cliff or rail thats on the edge of the road

[mcBen]

That is wise ^ got some terrible oversteer in an integra once and the lane rule means it was untouched bar having to replace drivers seat!

As you improve in hills seek roads the have secondary surfaces. No point learning on pristine tarmac and then come first hillclimb losing it when you encounter some rippled asphalt

[theknickerbocker]

ok sweet

so any reason for having a locked diff in the ke70 instead of lsd?

[AJPS]

ok sweet

so any reason for having a locked diff in the ke70 instead of lsd?

the price

if you are not drifting and have the money, then get a jdm t series with discs and lsd for sure

having said that, its not a bad thing to learn how to drive around the push of a locker, most people can learn to drive almost as fast with a locker and lsd, but if the course is tight or wet an lsd will be much easier to handle

grip is the fastest over all and most consistent, but as you improve you will find ways/and corners/conditions where a slide is faster

[Myles]

I wish i had of bought an AE86, I bought a MX83 Cressida, not a bad car, its rwd and fun, but they dont handle anything like a ke70 or ae86 would and they are expensive on fuel lol. But what some of the other guys have said is true, you need to drive different conditions, different roads etc to become familure with rwd and the different characteristics from car to car, I havnt driven an AE86, but with the Cressida for example in the dry it is pretty quick and predictable, but in the wet, a tight corner, and the rear will snap from underneath me... But you learn these things and adapt to them and hopefully with more seat time you will become a better driver, if it were me, i wouldnt think twice, i would get a KE70/AE71/AE86 over a MX5 anyday haha :)

[theknickerbocker]

ok so ive looked into the ke70s i like em but how do they compare to the ae in the handling department?

also ive heard that any suspension or brake mod is a pain in the ass is this true?

also a 4age conversion looks really pricey would it be better to buy one already converted even though im after really low power to learn rwd?

[AJPS]

cars are expensive, and take a lot of time to get right (even then they arent right)

ke70s and ae86s feel very similar, ae86s feel like you sit a little lower, but otherwise, same shit

converting the ke70 to ae86 struts and a worthwhile diff used to be cheap, but now costs a lot

converting to 4age, takes a long time and the car will still be slow (comparatively) but can still shame most cars through the hills with the right driver -

buying one modded and checking it over will get you a lot more seat time and possibly save you money

if you want it to be legal or close to then stick with 4age, if you dont care, consider other options, but then you will find out if you really love toyotas, because the costs will sky rocket as will the fines, the defects and the break downs

you can buy 'much better/more modern' cars for the money in terms of ride quality, looking like you have a job and police friendly,

but you have to decide what you really want

i see too many come up for sale not long after the purchase

[dove grey 64]

That's why I'd say go for the mx5. Cheap ,good and it will run right as it's not modded. There is one on gumtree at the moment for 4.5k

[jay70]

for being a daily and grip hills runs I would just get an mx5, lsd and some sticky tyres but for mucking around sliding and stuff a 4a corolla is good fun. I wish I had mine before I spent so much on my 180

[nanotech]

I've owned an na6 mx5 for roughly 4-5 years now and I would strongly recommend buying one as your first rwd car if you are tossing up between an mx and a sprinter. There are a number of reasons but lets go through them one by one.

- first and foremost, the mx5 is a very cheap car. Infact, it's the worlds record winning best selling sports car ever. What does that mean? forget the decorated history and accolades, what this means for us is that the car was mass produced in HUGE numbers. Put simply, there is an absolute mother load of mx5's out there.

- More mx5's means an abundance of spare parts at low prices and overall huge depreciation buying whole cars second/third/fourth hand. As this is your first rwd car, expect that when you start to push the car you might make an expensive mistake. It happens. Mx5's have one amazing trait and that is their simplicity. I'll give you an idea: The average na6 gearbox will set you back $50-80 for a low km replacement. I replaced my tired old engine with a 100,000km b6 for $200. It's like that with basically all mx5 parts. The only expensive parts to replace are upgrading to the na8 differential.
You will want to do this as the na6 diff is a smaller box and as such is prone to blowing under high stress. Because the case is smaller, the crown/pinion etc are small and under high stress are prone to shearing. The 1.8L car had a much bigger diff and also were optioned with torsen t2 lsd's from the factory.
It's a good upgrade but it can be expensive as you will have to replace the drive shaft as well as the half shafts. The diff will most likely be open center as well so you will have to source the torsen on your own. This adds up but keep in mind it's probably one of the only mods you will have to do to the car to have fun early on.

-Going back to what I mentioned before about the mx5 being plentiful, they are very cheap to find. I've seen them low as $3k in average condition and as high as $8k immaculate. Compared to Sprinters, it's much easier to track them down and you don't have to worry about rust as it is very rare on an mx5.

-Mechanically the cars have a very simple 1.6 B6 engine and are very easy to work on. Everything under the bonnet is like Lego and it's a great car to learn from if you want to improve your mechanical knowledge too.

-Now the part that really matters. Driving. Straight out of the box the mx5 is a seriously fun car, it's very VERY capable and will definitely put a smile on your face. The first day you get it up in the mountains you will realise what it's all about. Sadly after a while the car will start to show it's lack of power the more you drive it, but that said, there are many many things it can teach you before you get there.
For starters though, the only mods I would do would be shocks/springs or coilovers, and grippy tyres.

- Another bonus is that they may not look it, but they are a very raw car. No power steering, no ABS, no airbag, no sound deadening. You will hear the road through every panel and hear the car growling as you rev the hell out of it.

Maybe I'm biased because I own one already, but i'm quite a few years in and still loving mine. I would definitely explore this option based on bang for buck alone. I've deliberately left out any pro sprinter arguments as I don't have much experience with them and feel I can't form an opinion yet.

[Matt]

Both are good cars.. I favour the sprinter tho

[Danzo]

mx5. Its newer, handles good, its not a rusty over priced corolla and it probably wont get defected as quick. Just have to get over copping the "LOL OMG YOU DRIVE A GAY CAR FOR GAY PEOPLE AND YOUR A HAIRDRESSER LOL" every 23 seconds.

[AJPS]

mx5. Its newer, handles good, its not a rusty over priced corolla and it probably wont get defected as quick. Just have to get over copping the "LOL OMG YOU DRIVE A GAY CAR FOR GAY PEOPLE AND YOUR A HAIRDRESSER LOL" every 23 seconds.

as opposed to

"OMG PHAT ket0 rolla mang, do you dwipt it? me mates cuz bruvs sistaz new bf has a tufff wun, he takes it to lala its sick"

....When youre simply trying to fill your car with petrol

[McLEVIN]

Or "is it turbo bro?" Shits me right off

[Danzo]

as opposed to

"OMG PHAT ket0 rolla mang, do you dwipt it? me mates cuz bruvs sistaz new bf has a tufff wun, he takes it to lala its sick"

....When youre simply trying to fill your car with petrol
"YEAH KE70's ARE ALMOST AS SICK AS R31'S AY BRO, YEAH IVE GOT AN R31 WITH EXTRACTORS AND A MINISPOOL AND A CD STACKER IM PRETTY MUCH D1"