distributor problem

[hardon]

i have searched for hours and i am about to lose my shit,
how do you "lock out" a bigport bluetop distributor?


please help

[Matt]

There are yellow round plugs with black caps on them. Place a fuse into the spade connectors and the check engine light should start to flash.

[hardon]

i am running an msd ignition system as it is a carb setup

[Hen may possibly be a nut]

What are you trying to do?

If you are setting up the ignition according to some oldschool manual it may be referring to removing vacuum and mechanical advance. 4AGE dizzies have neither of these. In which case you don't need to do anything to Lock it out.

[hardon]

i have msd 6al2 programmable, i am trying to set my ignition curve but there seems to be and advance happening without setting anything on the msd.
so i have zero retard curve but it still advances as the rpm rises. i was assuming it was the dizzy as all the write ups refer to "locking out" the dizzy.
as far as im aware the msd should not advance my timing without a curve being set.

[Hen may possibly be a nut]

It's been a while since I had one apart, but I'm pretty certain the 4AGE rotors are solidly attached to the shaft. And the pickups are fixed too. Open it up and have a look though, it'll be pretty clear what's what.

And that advance is still mysterious.

[hardon]

i read this somewhere and have asked the msd technical support if this could be the cause .....the 4age distributor produces a trigger signal (for engine rpm and crank position sensing) using a magnetic reluctor sensor mounted in the distributor. The output signal from this type of sensor is not square wave and changes amplitude with rpm.

[hardon]

i am still having issues with the ignition timing.
at idle (1000rpm) the marking on my crank pulley is far let of the 0 and i would guess at saying its around 50 degrees advance if i were to refer to the numbers on the plastic.
it seems to run fine but i would really like to get to the bottom of this issue so i dont cause damage.
FYI the engine is a smallport 16v and i am using a bigport distributor for the msd ignition and i am confident the dizzy has been installed correctly.
any help here will be much appreciated.

a little video showing the crank pulley markings
http://youtu.be/E3_k2-hzAlA

[hardon]

it has to be the distributor?

[Slimer86]

If ignition is locked on msd to 10 degrees, you should have 10 at the crank. Soubds like it is out 1 tooth.
If you adjust/rotate the distributor does it move closer to 0? If so, then remove distributor and adjust by one tooth in that direction.
FYI, I just had a similar issue, timing adjustment was full retard, and ecu timing crank index position adjusted to compensate for the error, but I don't think that the msd may allow this?

[hardon]

yea, i am pretty sure the msd unit works by retarding the timing only.

from pages i have read you are supposed to set maximum advance using the dizzy and then retard the timing down to say 10 degrees at idle.

maximum retard on the msd is 24 degrees.
but with no retard set (as i didnin the video) i would assume using the distributor i should be able to get the crank marking on the 0 degree or atleast 10 degree marking.

i tried msd tech support but they are unhelpful.

[miko]

yea, i am pretty sure the msd unit works by retarding the timing only.

from pages i have read you are supposed to set maximum advance using the dizzy and then retard the timing down to say 10 degrees at idle.

maximum retard on the msd is 24 degrees.
but with no retard set (as i didnin the video) i would assume using the distributor i should be able to get the crank marking on the 0 degree or atleast 10 degree marking.

i tried msd tech support but they are unhelpful.

So you're unable to get the 10 degrees you're after?

I actually had this problem on a stocker. With the dizzy installed properly it was physically impossible to get base 10 degrees with the diagnostics port jumpered (or not for that matter).

I found that somehow the triggering teeth had rotated on the shaft. The teeth are just press fit on the shaft for big port AE82 dizzy's at least. I was able to get a shifter onto the flat of the shaft after taking the rotor off and could turn it enough to get it where I wanted it.

Fixed the problem!

I'd set it all to TDC 1, make sure the cams are lined up and then turn that sucker until the teeth and rotor line up properly to get sparking for cylinder 1.

[hardon]

in this photo is tdc looking into the distributor, the marking on the wheel at the back doesnt line up with anything.
could you please steer me in the right direction

[hardon]

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/5/1/1/6/560074.jpg (http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/hardon86/media/IMG_8082_zpskapqmiiq.jpg.html)
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/1/5/1/1/6/560075.jpg (http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/hardon86/media/IMG_8077_zpscfwbbptt.jpg.html)

[tottacrolla]

Looking at the picture the big black sensor has a thin metal bar and this should line up with one of the four pointers when at TDC. Find TDC compression on number 1 cylinder and then line up the sensor bar with the closest pointer, turn the distributor to do this. Make sure that the rotor arm is pointing to number one cylinder once aligned. If you cannot get the pointers to align then the distributor is a tooth out. When the pointer passes the bar a voltage is produced.
Timing it as above will give zero advance, adjust with a timing light to suit.
Also check that your bottom pulley is in good shape and not allowing the timing ring to turn independently of the crank pulley.

[miko]

Yep, he's right, that star should point to that little bar in the middle of the black box.

If you're going to do what I did, make sure everything is lined up. Before I ended up moving things in the dizzy I tripple checked everything. I put a screwdriver down the #1 plug hole to make sure the timing marks on the pulley were right. Then, make sure the intake cam dimple is in the right spot and check that the timing gear dimples line up with the marks on the back timing cover for both intake and exhaust.

I'm sure you've done all this, but I don't want you creating another problem.

Install the dizzy and make sure that the alignment marks are in the right spot when you're putting it in and check that the rotor is in roughly the right spot.

I'd also recommend marking the dizzy with where the #1 lead pickup is so that you can see exactly where the rotor needs to point for #1 without the dizzy cap there. Also adjust the dizzy so it's bolted in roughly in the middle of it's adjustment range so you've got a bit of space to play with.

If you're confident that everything is in the right spot then adjust a big shifter (I used a 12" shifter) so that it's over the flat on the dizzy shaft and turn it so that the star points to that bar (roughly) and the rotor is pointing to your #1 TDC marking that you've put on the dizzy body. Mine was firm to turn, but not ridiculously so. If you have to really put your weight into it I'd probably stop, the shifter will have a bit of grip, but not a lot.

Put it back together, fire it up and see how close you get to the timing you want. If you run out of range, pull it apart, note where it is, move the base and then move the star to where it was before in relation to the pickup.

It might take a few trys. If you've got a decent mobile or camera, take photos along the way so you know exactly what you have and where you've gone.

Good luck! Let us know if you need any points clarified.

[hardon]

thank you for your input guys, i know exactly what your talking about and will have a fool around with it tonight.

[miko]

Good luck :)

[corollaart]

When i almost went for msd unit ,the lock out means you set your timing at 34-35 degrees at idle .

The msd unit then retards the timing at idle by 23=24 degrees,so you actually plot a retard graph through the rev range .

I found the scorcher distributor far easyer and about the same money.

The msd would certainly more tuneable .I cant remember they being any mechanical advance in the distibutor .

rob