Winged/High Capacity Sumps

[Skylar]

Hi,

My sump's gotta come off again so I thought I might as well add some extra capapcity for safety. Engine is CA18.

If I widen the sump below oil full level I won't need trap doors to keep from filling 'empty' space as the car turns. This raises the questions, how much capacity should I add? I have a big'ish oil filter and a 12 row oil cooler so oil capacity is already a little higher than factory (which is ~3.5 by the manual). Although I don't think that really helps. It's not a superlap car or anything and probably will never pull any serious cornering force for long enough to be killling motors on the reg. but I like the peace of mind and I do everything overkill anyway. and the left side isn't shrouded very well like a 4a sump which has me a little worried. Can't plate that side up since the pickup tube runs through that side.

So generally, the wider I make it, the less height I need and the chance of getting "x" capacity without trapdoor increases. The higher I go, the more annoying it's going to be to access and tighten up the bolts to the block.

I woulda just done an accusump but I can't find anywhere to put it in the engine bay and I don't really wanna put it in the cabin, which leaves the boot. Still an option but at this point, a better sump seems a lot easier since it has to come off.

So yeah, appreciate your opinions on this.
Cheers.

[johl]

fwiw this is my engine

there is a hinge inside to stop the oil slushing around either side of the oil pickup. they hinges are welded in parallel with the motor and if you can imagine a line down from where the factory sump is, that is how they sit. i would take a photo for you to explain it better but im not at home to do so

[sundee]

My SR with a Moroso baffled sump took 5L including filter.

you would have to make the wings fairly wide...and make the wings above the oil pickup.

you just dont want that pickup going dry...

there needs to be enough qty in the sump to keep the pickup submersed in hard cornering.

[Skylar]

Johl, your sump looks to be extended futher down than stock? and about 4.5-5" wider? How much clearance do you have from crossmember/castor rod brackets?

sundee, why do you say above the pickup? Above the pickup but still submersed in oil? If the wings aren't full of oil while stationary, the extra oil you have in the wing will end up just filling up the wing on the other side when the car turns, no? I woulda thought you want the wings as low as you can get them, much like an SR high capacity oil pan but a little taller as they are sorta limited by height of the oil pan itself.

[johl]

Yeh a lot lower and wider. The extended part goes I front of the crossmember and doesn't hit anything. It was made for an s13 but luckily it fit fine on my 86. It was 10mm below the crossmember in one area but that it easily fixed. If you find a winged sump for an s13 cheap enough it will be easy to modify rather than starting from scratch.

[Skylar]

Turning right at ~.8G with something like 3.2l in the sump. In reality it's not all gonna be there since some of it's going to be circulating around the engine.


Right at 1G


Full sump with ~3.2l


Accelerating at 0.2G. No one's actually gonna be worried doing this but the water was pouring out the back doing this and seems to have the most effect in moving the oil.

Slanty motor means it handles left turns better than right turns. Accelerating seems to be more of a problem than cornering. Plan of attack is:
-do me a trap door on the back side of the sump - as high as I can get it and full width, aside from the bracing to top for the hinge point.
-do side wings, 130mm back from the front of the motor, 80mm high off the base on the short side (could go higher, might do depending on width). Could go higher than 80mm on the tall side since I have space and that will help the unshrouded/shorter side. That gets me to here:


Question: Do I put trap doors on the side wings and if so, full length or ~half width at the back only?

/nerding out

Johl, was your pick up extended to take advantage of the lower floor? I think my sump is already at crossmember level, if not a little lower :/ I can't be bothered extending the oil pick up tube anyway.
It would be nice to be able to find an already done sump but never seen one for sale here, nor anywhere really, except for the one off the drift battle mag ae86 (jeremy?, was a green hatch, a dirty ibis car I think.) and I would prefer to make it anyway, not that I like making stuff but I'm super picky and never find anything I want.

[johl]

Yeh my pickup was extended as far as I can remember when I had the sump off. I will be home in about a week and can get better photos of the outside of the sump if you wanted to do something similar?

[Skylar]

That'd be nice. I wanna see how they did the back part of the sump and how far they went back. I think I'm gonna cut straight back from the front of the sump to where my thumb is then cut down. Then mark the metal for the back piece and cut to shape. I think it'll just end up looking like this:


The 130mm is just a random number playing it safe, I'm pretty sure I could go further back but haven't looked at the car yet. Then again, 130dx120wx80h is already 1.25l per side, 2.5l extra is like an extra half bottle of oil per oil change. Shit's gonna add up and send me broke. haha. I think I'd be fine with like 600ml per side. Probably just do wings at the front area with trap doors and a trap door at the back.

[sundee]

im not sure why i thought that....and still cant think why...

[johl]

Here are some more photos