XT130arms effects on handling??

[slidn70]

Hi everyone, I fitted Xt130 arms into my ke70.

Atm my setup is :
complete ae86 struts,disc,calipers
ke70 springs
Kyb inserts
86/ke70 tie rods
Xt130 arms with new poly bushes.

Since installing them, my car has gained a fair amount of track and noticible camber

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/145660.jpg

I have yet to get a professional wheel allignment, (which may be the problem totally)

I have found that mid corner on a fast entry the car oversteers big time! I have taken two quick corners top of 2nd gear in the dry and just spun the car out. With the original t18/ae86 lower arm's i was running before it would have stuck those corner's easily.

Since the front track has increased so much should i increase the rear track to counter-act it? Or is it just my car!? http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/tongue.gif


Post up your results. What differences did longer LCA's do to your handling?

[johnny_08]

try driving slower, it aint a race car because of new arms http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/tongue.gif

[damo101]

umm i put ra40 arms n knuckles in last year..i think they are same length as xt 130

i got alot more bump steer ever since..but i guess they are coz of my stuffed shocks..but then i never got bump steer before i put them in and my shocks were already stuffed then..

handling wise..got more steering response..the oversteer/understeer kinda stayed the same..didnt notice much diff

dats on a sprinter..got 2 deg neg camber out of it..coz it was standard height

[beerhead]

I've got corona arms and really like them, your camber looks like it has more ... wtf. Just do a trusty tape measure wheel alignment, use matching tread patterns on each wheel. You're gonna have major toe out issues if you haven't corrected the wheel alignment.

[beerhead]

Unless you put RA40 strut tubes in a stut bender, the stub axel angle will be out, kills handling and an AE86 -KE70 -AE71

[damo101]

i just have the standard ae86 struts atm

[Gilly]

corona's or sigmas?

look like sigmas that camber increase is pretty drastic

[Hen is a total nutcase]

I just put Corona arms in a stock sprinter and came out with 1.5deg neg camber. Not nearly as much as that photo shows.

But my first point should be GET A PROPER WHEEL ALIGNMENT. The single best thing you can do to improve the handling of a car after changing any steering/suspension bits.

Also I believe RA40 struts don't screw with camber, only *A6* (and XT130) struts do that.

Hen

[slidn70]

try driving slower, it aint a race car because of new arms http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/tongue.gif[/b]

I always drive car's hard around the corners + i have to keep the corner speed up with the 4kc. cant afford to loose momentum!

I will get a wheel allignment and see what happens afterwards.

These are the arm's i put in. (new ones are the xt130,old looking ones are t18) I pulled them out of a self serve wreckers and the I.D plate said xt130, so i assume they're right?

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/4/8/4/3/145659.jpg

I was sort of expecting a few more people to say that "yes, longer LCA's with enduce oversteer" because most of the people want them to help drift their cars on this site. I was mostly wanting it to increase my corner speed/handing because i'm not building a dedicated drift car, I want an all rounder. (Street/circuit/fun skid car).

I have noticed that the steering is lighter which is nice.

[Matt-AE86]

I would say its probably help induce the oversteer more. Is it very twitchy now ? I know if I run alot of track up the front and less in the rear , it makes it very twitchy/oversteery. It can sometimes be very dangerous. Try putting stockers on the front. I doubt it will oversteer then, cause you have less track in the front, more in the rear. http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

[slidn70]

Yeah its very twitchy. pretty un-nerving at freeway speed. I can be mid into the corner (with all the weight loaded to one side)and just do a little flick on the steering wheel and it will pretty much turn the car right around!

I'm running matching tyres and rims all round (6.5" rims on 195 tyres)

I will try the stockies on the front and see what it does http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/emoticons/smile.gif

[kaibeecee]

it's the camber angle. increased track gives lateral stability, but the excess camber makes the car twitchy mid corner. more input response on the front end at speed due to less contact area of the tyre to road

it's better if you want track, to just get spacers, camber is easy to get and safer with camber tops.

[biggo]

dont forget to knock off the arm stopper. Add some conduit to the steering rack for more lock and viola! That should make for hours of fun

[slidn70]

OK, so some people seem to think its the camber angle and some others are saying it's the increased front track!

At the moment its either one of the two or a combination of both, OR i just really need a proper wheel alligment :confused:

Something is definately not right because no one else has really posted in reply saying that their own car oversteers alot after fitting longer LCA's.

[RobertoX]

My stock AE86 with Corona arms and a wheel alignment feels fine. Maybe a shade more bump steer/willingness to follow uneven-ness in the road, but not crazy different. It's only a 10mm per side track increase here too, nothing really major.

My other car with 3.5deg camber and crazy track increase and a wheel alignment feels fine too. A little understeery, but I think that's due to the locked diff.

Get a wheel alignment first, then if the problem persists start looking at other things.

[stefan]

corona arms are the shit best budget upgrade fo sure

ive got fair bit of front track increase same wheels all round 15x7.5-4 the s wheels wobbles at like 120kmph

um but hills etc grabs corners pimp!@

dont use sigma arms wrong steering arm set up

another option is the mx63 cressida arms gives -3 camber

[Hen is a total nutcase]

MX62 Cressida lower control arms have the wrong balljoint for the Sprinter steering arms. And the Cressida steering arms are way too long and the wrong bolt spacing, so you can't swap them in. Plus they are 10mm longer than Sigma arms. They are only any use if you use them with an S13 strut upgrade.

Hen

[ke70dave]

i dunno how relevant this is

but i got s13 control arms (s13 front end, coilovers bla bla bla), i dunno how long they are compared to whatever you have in there, but im told its extra 30mm either side, ive got camber tops as well, and they are set to full negative, and i dont think i have anywhere near as much camber as your car looks like...

ive just done a dodgy measure wheel alignment, its pretty good i think, no where near as good as professional, but it drives straight.

i dont have any of the problems you are describing at all, my car sticks to the road no matter how fast i drive it, i get understeer before over steer, but i rarely get and understeer though...it just grips....

im running 195/50/R15 on the front, and on the back is 185/60/R14, with 0 offset wheels (so the rear and front track is pretty much the same, judging by distance from guard to wheels)

what sort of suspension are you running? only thing i can think of is that if the back of your car is stiff springs but soft shocks, the back might be bouncing off the ground causing it to loose grip ie over steer?

even still my car has cut falcons in the back with just stock stuffed shocks and i dont get any of that http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/dcimages/7/5/4/536981.jpg

my thoughts would be, try pick up some cheap camber tops, and get some more positive camber goin, i think you have way to much camber there, you gota get at least some of the tyre on the ground. other than that im out of ideas....

very weird...

[keiichi]

hey i got t18 struts with xt130 arms in my ae71 and its lowered and i only got about -2deg max, looks more like -1 though. whats the deal? anyone?

[rthy]

yeah I second that, that cant be xt130 arms in that picture. I use them in my ae86 and it is visually the same as stock. Corners like a demon now though

[Konakid]

They are either corona arms or the car has about 30mm of toe out, which is probably likely considering you havent even had a wheel alignment!

After changing anything in the front end, an alignment is vital. It is most definately the crazy toe out that is causing the handling problems. Get a professional wheel alignment asap then report back. Can't judge a handling upgrade when the wheels are pointing in different directions!

Just put sprinter struts in my 71 and before doing an eye alignment it was disgusting! Could hardly drive round corners. After a quick eye alingment its much much better but still nowhere near what it should be. Getting a full alignment asap.

EDIT: Yes, an increase in front track without increasing the rear will promote oversteer at speed due to the extra grip generated at the front. Find some 7mm spacers for the rear to bring it more inline with the 10mm front increase. This should stop it being so unpredictable and snappy at the limit as well as raising the amount of speed your car can hold when cornering.