more CC's for ya Age

[sundee]

so u hear many reference's within the 4(age) family.. mixing the 4a 16/20v heads with different a series blocks to gain more CC's.

ive just never understood all of the terms and what they relate to.

so we start with the base:

4ag - 1600cc..(15*^)
then - 7ag which is the 4a head on the 7afe block.. which just increases stroke
then u have an 8ag? and 8.5ag?

how many more cc's can u gain with the A series head's? and what blocks do they use? ideally not going to much out of square... aka to much stroke:bore

edit: here is a template so u can copy n paste it and fill out the info then ill edit this top post to compile all the info
(* = info still needed)

engine ref: (4a,5a,8a etc)
Block:
Crank:
Rods:
Pistons:
mods needed:
Cubic capacity:
Bore/Stroke:
Links:

engine ref: 4age ( factory specs)
Block: A series
Crank: N/A
Rods: N/A
Pistons: 81.00mm
mods needed: N/A
Cubic capacity: 1587cc
Bore/Stroke: 81.00mm/77.00mm
Links:

engine ref: 4.5ag
Block: A series
Crank: Standard
Rods:*
Pistons: CA18
mods needed: Bored ?
Cubic capacity: 1666cc
Bore/Stroke: *
Links:

engine ref: 5ag (HKS kit)
Block: A series (1587cc)
Crank: HKS stroker
Rods:*
Pistons: HKS 81.00mm (which was a must as the gudgeon pin height is different)
mods needed: Use of HKS crank needed the block ground away to handle the extra material on the crank webs
Cubic capacity: 1710cc
Bore/Stroke: 81.00mm/83.00mm
Links:


engine ref: 5.5ag (HKS kit) & (C.B.Y Kit)
Block: A series
Crank: HKS stroker
Rods:*
Pistons: CA18
mods needed:*
Cubic capacity: 1796cc
Bore/Stroke: 81.00mm/83.00mm
Links : C.B.Y http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=47527


engine ref: 6ag (RS Yasu)
Block:*
Crank:*
Rods:*
Pistons:*
mods needed:*
Cubic capacity:*
Bore/Stroke:*
Links:

engine ref: 7ag
Block: 7a
Crank: 7a
Rods: *
Pistons:*
mods needed:*
Cubic capacity: 1762cc
Bore/Stroke:*
Links:

engine ref: 8ag
Block: 7a
Crank: 7a
Rods:*
Pistons: 83.00mm
mods needed:*
Cubic capacity: 1850cc
Bore/Stroke:*
Links:

engine ref: 8.5ag
Block:*
Crank:*
Rods:*
Pistons:*
mods needed:*
Cubic capacity:*
Bore/Stroke:*
Links:

engine ref: 9ag
Block:*
Crank: 2zz
Rods:*
Pistons:*
mods needed:*
Cubic capacity:*
Bore/Stroke:*
Links:

[Frak]

5ag was using HKS stroker crank which was 83.00mm stroke compared to 77.00mm stroke

capacity with recommended 81.00mm HKS piston(which was a must as the gudgeon pin height is different) was 1710cc

Use of HKS crank needed the block ground away to handle the extra material on the crank webs

[Frak]

5.5ag was HKS crank(83.00 stroke) and CA18 pistons.

capacity was 1796cc

[Frak]

6ag was something RS Yasu started.......have to find specs tho!

[Frak]

4.5ag was standard crank but ca18 pistons, capacity 1666cc
standard bore/stroke was 81.00 x 77.0 which gave 1587cc

[sundee]

well their is 3 more i had ahhh.. forgotten about..
for the money they would be asking for those kits.. i wouldnt think it would be worth the extra power and torque gained would it?

[Frak]

The HKS kit isn't just a crank BUT pistons also due to relocated piston pin position, the crank is no longer available but they still sell the pistons.

[sundee]

so the 7afe block gives u around 1800cc right?
how does that compare with the 8 and 8.5ag... what blocks are they using their?

[Frak]

8ag is 83mm piston with 7a crank/block, capacity 1850cc

standard 7a capacity 1762cc

[sundee]

hmmm now thats getting up their, any blocks that use a similar stroke to stock 77.00mm but have a larger capacity? what im trying to get at is, when u increase the stroke and make the engine less square is starts to loose its willingness to be rev happy..
it would be great to have the cubes but still a happy 9000rpm

[Frak]

9ag 2zz or 1zz (not sure) crank into 7a block

[sundee]

would that work? how would tha work.. ive always wanted to build a monstor block with an A series head.. somewhere around 2L would be nice.. torque of an SR and the redline of a 20v!

[Frak]

would that work? how would tha work.. ive always wanted to build a monstor block with an A series head.. somewhere around 2L would be nice.. torque of an SR and the redline of a 20v!


it has been done a number of times, the bore spacing is the same
bore spacing (2ZZ = 87.5mm vs 4AG = 87.5mm), main bearing journal diameter (2ZZ dia = 48mm vs. 4AG dia = 48mm vs. 7A dia = 48mm)
same crank nose design to drive the 4AG oil pump

[sun_moon]

2zz crank would be rather expensive still i guess.

my pick of the bunch would be 7afe block, smallport head and ca18 pistons... mostly due to low cost and availability of parts.

[sundee]

That would be choice on a budget but. Was more after all the ways
to get extra cubes still retaining an A series head. Frak what specs do u get using a 2zz or 1zz crank and what block is used?

[sun_moon]

from memory the 2zz crank is used in a 4age block.

[ae86hachiroku]

5.5AG is where it's at. New stroker kit by C.B.Y. Fairly pricey however, would be the ideal option for a N/A 4AG. 1800CC. Apparently still able to rev to 10,000+.

http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=47527

[driftke70]

3sge


.

[focus_7]

I think edit the top post with all options and chuck it in the articles section.

[sundee]

3sge .


bias mayb? :P

nah the whole point is to keep the A series head... ok so u look under the hood and see a 3s u know it mean buisness.. but if u see an A series.. u striaght away think 1600cc .. bla bla..
but little do they know its 1800, 1900 or 2000cc... awsome! torque of an sr rpm of a 20v





I think edit the top post with all options and chuck it in the articles section.

Thats perfect.. thats what im after.. i just want a compilation of all the options and and the main parts used and i guess we could add major mods if needed..

[lo_rolla]

US$5200 from PASS. Would rather go direct if I can when talking that kinda of coin....
I am definately thinking about this.

Which if thats the case I have some shit for sale for you bastards...

[lo_rolla]

4,901.24 AUD Quoted from CBY site.
http://www.cby.jp/hachiroku/photo12.html
pretty sure that's without rods though...

[Sam-Q]

actually its the 1ZZ crank you would use for the CC's as it has the long stroke. The 2ZZ crank has a 85mm stroke which is 0.5mm less than the 7a bottom end.



sundee86: not that simple, the longer the stroke the greater the forces on everything and hence the lower the redline. This is the reason why F1 engines have around a 100mm bore and a 25mm stroke.

[Grant #2]

No, no, he's saying to keep the engine undersquare for the same reason you're talking about.

BUT, nobody has mentioned to him yet that you can't have a very large capacity engine without a long stroke. The largest displacement you can get is the 4.5AG...with 83mm pistons and stock stroke. This still makes the cylinder walls a bit weak though.

Also, in regards to the fill in the blanks, you can't have a 5AG and 5.5AG with the same bore and stroke.

[Sam-Q]

yeah ok,

I still think a modded 2ZZ crank with the block decked 0.5mm would be pretty neat. Would only be worth it if you could get a very cheap crank though. It would be 1751cc and it would be able to rev pretty hard without worrying about breaking it.

[sundee]

actually its the 1ZZ crank you would use for the CC's as it has the long stroke. The 2ZZ crank has a 85mm stroke which is 0.5mm less than the 7a bottom end.



sundee86: not that simple, the longer the stroke the greater the forces on everything and hence the lower the redline. This is the reason why F1 engines have around a 100mm bore and a 25mm stroke.

hey SAM -Q , thats what i was trying to get at, not to mention the longer piston travel making it harder for the piston to travel a longer distance at the same RPM..


No, no, he's saying to keep the engine undersquare for the same reason you're talking about.

BUT, nobody has mentioned to him yet that you can't have a very large capacity engine without a long stroke. The largest displacement you can get is the 4.5AG...with 83mm pistons and stock stroke. This still makes the cylinder walls a bit weak though.

Also, in regards to the fill in the blanks, you can't have a 5AG and 5.5AG with the same bore and stroke.

Hey Grant - i guess Ideally having large displacement and short stroke is what i was getting at.. but got the definition back to front. i also wasnt aware that the largest bore was 83.00mm, thats good to know

With regard to the info Re - 5 ag and 5.5ag . i just input all the info from the post so far. so if there is anyhing that needs to be corrected just let me know.

cheers guys

keep it up