Aftermarket ECU with Inbuilt Igintion drivers - 1NZ/1ZZ COPS ?????

[Futo_gt86]

I have an early Microtech MTX-8 "sequential fire version 2" running a ST20V
This has internal ignition drivers (pre X4 external ignitors)

I have a set of 1NZ COPS, and want to use, preferably configured as sequential fire.

I'm not sure if I'm asking this right, but;-

What is the signal the in built ignition drivers send out from this ECU?

What is the signal I need up to the IGT pin on the COP to get it to trigger?

Is there any way of making this ECU work with 1NZ COPS?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Cheers,
Ali

[Matt]

Have a read of this and the links in the post, and if u have any more q's please ask..

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/showthread.php/26542-1NZ-1ZZ-coils-and-20V-motors-igniter-coils

[Futo_gt86]

OK, read that.

I can't "simply splice into the IGT wire before the igniter" with out opening up the MTX-8 and spicing in internally
- not willing to do so either.

But this bit intrigues me


Or am i slightly overthinking it, and i should wire up the 1NZ/1ZZ coils in the same fashion as the club4ag guys (splice into IGT and 12V+, ground all of the coils somewhere on the body), and then run that blk/brwn wire of the igniter to the exact same grounding point that the coils are using?

Love,
Seamsu

Can you link the club4ag thread referenced>?

Hear me out, have I grasped this correctly.

On COP - NOTE TO ANYONE READING THIS ****DO NOT EVER DO THIS*****!
IGT - Splice to 12v+
IGF - Meh
Ground - Ground to block - in my case use 4 individual grounds and join 4 separate ignitor wires from ecu set in firing order
12V - Splice to IGT

Splice IGT and 12V+ together> and trigger with the actual earth
Really?
Ali

[Skylar]

Nah man, that's carazy.

Link me to the manual for that thing and I'll tell you how to configure it. But either way, you'll still trigger off the IGt wire. Just need to make sure the MTX8 can be set for going high (from memory) with a 5v wave. I really hope the signal coming out of the MTX8 isn't some specialised signal that's not a standard squarewave and made by microtech for their X4 box. In saying that, I've seen X4 boxes used on other ECU's so you're fine.

[Futo_gt86]

LOL - I though that sounded bit Wak.
However, didn't stop me from trolling club4ag for hours looking for the above reference thread.

This is an older Microtech, well before X4 box - It has internal ignitors.....The "X4 box" is internal, not separate.
I think "Direct fire" was the term coined?
Microtech has killed the MTX-8 manual off there site.
When you click it, it only shows the later MT/LT which has the X4 box.
http://microtechefi.com/download/ltmanual.pdf - Manual -I can configure as per this - have all screens
http://microtechefi.com/download/LT8_TOY%204%20CYLw.pdf - Wiring
The difference is the ignition output -
I have the Yellow, Yellow/Black trace, Orange & Orange/Black trace wires coming straight out of the main unit.
Its more like this Mazda 13B diagram, no ignitors, just straight to the coil.
http://microtechefi.com/download/MTX_8%2013BT.pdf

Isn't an ignitor just a rapid earth?

But yeah, have a think about this and come back to me.

Cheers,
Ali

[Hen may possibly be a nut]

A dumb ignitor just increases the current that you can send through your coil. The electronics in some ECUs can't handle enough current to run the coil directly, so the ECU runs the ignitor and the ignitor runs the coil.

In general:
12V - gets 12V with ignition
Ground - gets ground (hey, hey, slow down egghead)
IGT - This controls the ignitor/coil, pulls low to start the dwell time, and goes high to cause a spark.
IGF - Feedback to the ECU to confirm the coil fired. Irrelevant for any aftermarket ECU.

To answer your specific questions: Your ECU will output a square wave on the ignition outputs. The coils expect a 5V square wave to drive them. If the ECU output voltage matches then connect it up and you'll be fine. Each ignition output gets wired to the IGT on a coil.

Your ECU has an ignitor in it (or 4 actually) and the coils have ignitors in them. So it's a bit of overkill, but shouldn't cause problems.

EDIT - Hadn't checked the expected voltage on IGT. It's 5V. ECU ignition out needs to match this.

[Hen may possibly be a nut]

Also just had a look at the linked diagrams. The yellow, yellow/black, orange and orange/black wires run the injectors, not the ignition.

EDIT - Need to check ECU output voltage.

[Skylar]

Ugh, I thought Matt linked you to this:
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/showthread.php/7098-Toyota-Coilpack-info-thread
which is completely clear. 5v squarewave, fires going high, 2-3msec dwell.

[Skylar]

The documentation is so shit, I have no idea of what's going on. Totally regret offering to do this, haha.

As far as I can tell, set the ign output to -ve and it should work. You want to wire to the grey/*colour* wires. Didn't check but some are wired in firing order and others in cylinder order. From memory micro's are in firing order so 1 is 1. 2(ECU) is 3(engine), 3 is 4 and 4 is 2.

Does it say anything about ignition output voltage in the manual? I did a search using an iPod app but it returned nothing. Can't tell if the PDF is an image or a document.

[Hen may possibly be a nut]

Realised reading Skylar's linked thread that coil ignitor needs a 5V square wave. ECU igntion output may be a 12V square wave. This may cause issues.

[Futo_gt86]

A dumb ignitor just increases the current that you can send through your coil. The electronics in some ECUs can't handle enough current to run the coil directly, so the ECU runs the ignitor and the ignitor runs the coil.

In general:
12V - gets 12V with ignition
Ground - gets ground (hey, hey, slow down egghead)
IGT - This controls the ignitor/coil, pulls low to start the dwell time, and goes high to cause a spark.
IGF - Feedback to the ECU to confirm the coil fired. Irrelevant for any aftermarket ECU.

To answer your specific questions: Your ECU will output a square wave on the ignition outputs. The coils expect a 5V square wave to drive them. If the ECU output voltage matches then connect it up and you'll be fine. Each ignition output gets wired to the IGT on a coil.



Ugh, I thought Matt linked you to this:
http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/showthread.php/7098-Toyota-Coilpack-info-thread
which is completely clear. 5v squarewave, fires going high, 2-3msec dwell.


Your ECU has an ignitor in it (or 4 actually) and the coils have ignitors in them. So it's a bit of overkill, but shouldn't cause problems.

EDIT - Hadn't checked the expected voltage on IGT. It's 5V. ECU ignition out needs to match this.

Yes this is clear.


Hen may possibly be a nut Also just had a look at the linked diagrams. The yellow, yellow/black, orange and orange/black wires run the injectors, not the ignition.

EDIT - Need to check ECU output voltage


As stated above the LT/MT wiring diagrams are wrong for my application
I have the Yellow, Yellow/Black trace, Orange & Orange/Black trace wires coming straight out of the for ignition.
I also have Yellow, Yellow/Black trace, Orange & Orange/Black trace coloured wires coming out for the injectors - Different block on ECU
The ignition drivers are as per 13B diagram (no trail or lead off course)

I originally tried connecting these to the IGT and set the ign output to -ve - The result was no spark what so ever.
This was because I did not realize the ecu was direct fire.

[Skylar]

Derp.

Wire a 5v pull up for the spark outputs. Those drivers are sinks only.

When you mentioned they were "direct fired" it hit me that no voltage/current is outputted from the driver. And they are capable of taking 12v at big current.

My feeling is that those diagrams should have the ignition output set to +ve. But if that's how microtech designate "going high" I would leave it on -ve.

[Skylar]

Also, when I say 5v pull-up, I mean 5v pull-up via 10k ohm resistor to each signal line.

I would confirm that with microtech but there's no other way I can think of doing it. I'd buffer the line too just to eliminate any chance of crosstalk, not knowing enough about electronics.

[Futo_gt86]

Off to Jaycar I go.
I'll let you know how it works out.

Thanks Skylar.

[Skylar]

Would confirm that number. The pull ups on my CAS inputs (Nissan) are 330 Ohm at 5V. I've seen tach pull ups at 10k Ohm on a 5v line too. I don't know enough about electronics to be able to tell you what you need but I would start high.

A quick look around the net says 10k is fine, wiki says 1-5k is also fine and depends on the electronics being driven. The value of the resistor will be determined by the input impedance of the coil circuit. I have no idea what's on the other side of the coil's connector, whether it's an opto or drives straight into a transistor. Basically, start high and work down. I feel if 1k doesn't do it, contact microtech. or just sell it and get a vipec. lol