4agze wiring and ECU

[Skylar]

When I say CAS, I mean the crank pickups in the distributor. and no, you need a smallport 24/1/1 distributor. No way to run the bigport distributor with any GZE computer.

[Nikkojoe]

Easier to find and utilise! Using an ae92 map loom with correct ecu (ae92 map) you will need a 4agze cas OR ae92/3 adm or jdm smallport dizzy at minimum. I may have a smallport dizzy if you end up needing it. You can't use the dizzy you have now because:

1. it aint stock, all the original shit has been gutted in it and an custom pick-up has been used.
2. even if it was still all the factory shit inside, its a 24/4 dizzy by nature which does not work with a gze, only a bigport 4age (which skylar has pointed out a few times )

Gze setups are picky, cant slap shit together and hope they work ok. Really need to retain a lot of the factory stuff for them to work at their best, which is sometimes why when people go aftermarket ecu on them there are no gains (sometimes steps backwards!).

[keiichi]

hmmm yeh, i keep hearing i should go aftermarket ecu.

and yeh, point finally taken about the dizzy

i will probably want your dizzy yeh if you want to sell it to me, as i will probably follow your advice. i need to do some more research though, there does seem to be some logic in going aftermarket but meh too tired to think about that now lol.

[keiichi]

been doing a bit more research, and i think that going aftermarket ecu would be the way to go, any recommendations for a simple, user friendly affordable one?

i got some power to the car today and all the electrics work, it seems like a mess but it is all operational, and i think i figured out what is up with the dizzy and the grey box... so, i'm going to go through a few things and if anyone can correct me or confirm, please do! pictures below for reference.

there is a switch in the dizzy as you can see, it picks up one signal in four quarters of a rotation. each one of those cam nodes passes the switch (sends signal) at the same time the rotor passes the spark sender. follow the grey wire back into the grey box. i traced the wires out of the box. starting from the bottom they lead to:
1. ECU
2. ECU
3. Sliced into wire between starter motor and KE70 OEM fuse box.
4. Power relay.
5. Coil/Ignitor.
6. Earth.

Now I was thinking that, for each time the rotor passes one of the spark senders, normally, the spark is preloaded and is sent as soon as it passes. The rotor 'blade' is pretty wide so is it possible that this setup that is on there is taking the signal and sending it to the ECU so that you can tune when the spark is fired as the rotor passes. there isnt much there but there is enough to allow some adjustment of when it can fire.
So in conclusion, this setup is intended to allow tuneable ignition timing while maintaining a dizzy type ignition.
Am I right?






also another question... from the intake plenum there is a vacuum hose that leads to a T intersection, one way going into some vacuum cylender thing on the SC i think, the other way heading into the cabin and ending next to where the ecu used to be. is it possible that hose was or can be connected to a MAP or MAF sensor or some sort? which in my understanding would be a required reading for an aftermarket ecu.

and thanks again for the input in this thread so far, it's made my life alot easier

Any recommendations for an aftermarket ecu?

[Skylar]

Ugh get rid of that crazy box and pick up a standard loom and (smallport) distributor. Wire in an adaptronic or just buy a patch harness from kaizen garage. Tune. Enjoy car.
Not saying you can't use that loom but it's a bit of work.

You'll get much better drivability if you run stock 24/1/1 trigger than that 4 tooth wheel.

Hose to cabin would have connected to the on-board MAP sensor in the (aftermarket) ECU.

Your electronics terminology is funny.

[keiichi]

My terminology is such because I am making it up as I go.... I'm a self taught person, I had very VERY limited knowledge of ECU's and all that shit before I bought this car... I'm just like meh whatever I'll figure it out. Now my head hurts lol but its fine. I feel like I have crammed in alot in the last 24 hours.

I have no idea what this 24/1/1 business is.

I'm also thinking of getting a Megasquirt or Microsquirt. There is tons of DIY guides on the net, software etc.
I should be able to get one of them, trace back each wire from the original ecu's plugs that are there now, cut and rewire in to the squirts correct sockets (from what i understand each pin for its plug it comes with is a different receiver), get a MAP/MAF for that hose, wire it in. Plug into laptop, AND THEN WING IT!!!!! hahaha

Still don't understand why the crazy grey box is so crazy... maybe it just my kind of crazy cause I find it very intelligent.

Also, did a comp test today... 135 across the board sound normal?

[Slimer86]

Save yourself many headaches, and get a new loom and ecu.
Source a dist from an AE92 smallport to use as the crank angle sensor, and get a new loom.
If you use that loom, you don't know the history of it, it already looks like a headache, why give yourself more pain in the long run when it doesn't run as you would like it?

Wiring is painful when its not right, and trouble shooting can be very costly.
I was taught during a seminar for an Australian aftermarket ecu, you can have the best ECU, but if the wiring isn't up to the task its next to useless.
P.S, that alternator 12+ and charge light wiring is making me nauseous, I hate to see what the rest of the engine loom is like.

[Skylar]

Hey, not giving you shit for your terminology, I just find it amusing, and sometimes I don't know what you're talking about.

24/4 is that trigger pattern you currently have in that distributor. 24 tooth (at the back) and 4 tooth (front) wheels providing 2 signals to the ECU. 24/1/1 is the newer style so they can run sequential/waste spark. It has the same 24 tooth wheel but the wheel at the front only has one 'notch' in it but two separate sensors read that wheel. Sends 3 signals to the ECU.

MS shouldn't be hard to do. You'll learn a lot reading the megamanual. I need to go buy one.

crazy grey box is crazy because it doesn't need to be there. You have more wire terminations, and a critical ignition component sitting in the engine bay which isn't required. Most ECU's can process the signal straight from the CAS without a crazy grey box.

[keiichi]

i didn't think you were giving me shit for my terminology, i'm just frustrated cause i wish i just new this stuff already lol.

i think, from what i have seen, there is no CAS on this engine atm. unless that pickup to the crazy grey box can be considered one, but doesnt there need to be a pick up from the 24teeth and that would be the CAS?

so im thinking, still get the MS, an ae92 dizzy to use for the CAS and a MAP+Coilpack loom and rewire. its either that and wire up the MS and see what happens. OR, i can try find out off the previous owner what the ecu brand name was and buy another

[Skylar]

CAS refers to anything that picks up crank rotation and converts it to a electronic signal for the ECU to read. Normally consists of one or two patterned wheels or discs and the sensor(s) to go with it. So you could call that ultra-primitive set-up on your engine to be a CAS and use it alone to trigger whatever (aftermarket) ECU you choose to run next but only batch injection and distributor. Hell, people have used points to trigger an ECU when no other easy option was available. But as I said, a 24/1/1 dizzy would provide much better drivability through banked or sequential injection.

If you decide to use that harness and an MS, you have to decide what ignition set up you're going to use. The harness is only configured for banked injection and waste spark (this may have been deleted when reverting to big port distributor). MS2 only has outputs for distributor and two for injectors. If you want sequential you can run MS2X and extra boards for 3/4 injectors and another for 2/3/4 coilpacks and you need the board for the second reluctor input. Microsquirt has 2 injection outputs and two ignition outputs, shit's expensive as it's prebuilt and fully sealed. Buy an MS3, will run a V8 in sequential and do way more than you need it to. You can run the jb-perf boards for extra injectors/ignition outputs(cheaper) or buy the plug in MS3X board which has all 8 ignition and 8 injector outputs and other stuff.

Confusing, eh?